I thought Trump did poorly.
Trump missed a chance to go after Hillary about Libya, especially her statement “we came, we saw, he died” in which she bragged about killing Gaddafi. Libya erupted in a civil war following that event and terrorists are running the country. Well done Hillary.
Trump also missed a chance to attack the Clinton Foundation.
Trump faced three gotcha questions, and Hillary zero. On those grounds, the debate was quite a bit biased. Still, Trump missed a golden opportunity on some of the questions.
On the nuclear war issue, Trump should have commented “Hillary has supported every war every time.”
On the Birther issue, he simply should have stated, “I changed my mind. If we saw the birth certificate sooner, I would have changed my mind sooner. Obama will be gone in a few months, why is Obama’s birth certificate even relevant now?”
Poof, just like that, the birther story would have died on the spot.
Trump was too fidgety. He interrupted too much.
Commentators Split
ZeroHedge offers this debate post-mortem: Rematch Required As Commentators Split On Debate Winner, Markets Give Hillary Nod
Time
CNN
Wikileaks
CNBC
Some Results at the Moment
More Mish Comments
I thought moderator Lester Holt did a poor job. Worse it was a biased hatchet jobs. Hillary got no tough questions. Yet, Trump could easily have done much better, and turned those question into an advantage. A nice little quip would have been nice “Doesn’t Hillary get any pointed questions?”
I watched on NBC. Immediately following the debate, the station had on Hillary’s analyst who bragged about what a great job she did. Then they went away to a commercial break, a very long commercial break. The Republican analyst was supposed to be on following the debate, but that never happened.
That was more built-in bias. And it was all so obvious.
What Matters?
In the end, I suspect most will say “hooray for our side”. If either side was looking for a knockout, this likely wasn’t it.
However, my opinion doesn’t matter. The opinions of undecided voters matters. I am surprised by most of the above polls. All but CNN had Trump winning.
If those debate polls hold in Trump’s favor and are reflective of undecided voters, then Trump may have come out way ahead. We will know more after the next round of election polls.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
HILLIARY might have got a point or two, but she has no case to make. Trump is right—-talk talk talk…..all talk. Except when there is OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. THEN WE ERASE ALL THE TALK. HAVING A PRIVATE SERVERWAS A MISTAKE, BUT THEN ERASING THE EMAILS IS OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE ,
The one thing Trump did well was interrupt. I suspect like the rest of the campaign he will profile strongly upwards. Likewise one has to assume he left certain zingers on the table. The charity fraud that is the Clinton Foundation will be used at a judicious point.
The most important thing he could do is what he did: Just be on stage and compare favorably with Shrillary. That he did. She is like listening to an Alban Berg atonal symphony. In case you wonder what that is like think “Severely out of tune piano dropped on your head” You can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPD_LNNf-S0
“The opinions of undecided voters matters.” – Mish
…
“(Frank) Luntz (GOP pollster) hosted a group of undecided voters from the swing state of Pennsylvania. Sixteen said that Clinton won, while the remaining five declared the GOP nominee the debate champ … among those who said the debate swayed their opinion and helped them solidify their decision, 10 said Clinton. Only two said Trump had helped them move the needle his way” – “‘Clear winner’: Luntz focus group hands Clinton debate victory”
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/clear-winner-luntz-focus-group-hands-clinton-debate-victory/article/2602937
Well there you have it then. A poll of 16 voters in a state that has voted for the democrat pres candidate in every election since 1992 (every election since Reagan) has a majority for the democrat. What a surprise.
Focus groups are not polls, to be sure. However, focus groups can provide answers to questions or indicators a simple poll cannot.
Go to that link and read up on the reasons why they thought what they did.
Lantz is a poor researcher if he projects an election result from the fleeting sentiments of a sample of 16. No reputable researcher would do that.
Since you brought this up, how about this latest news from NC – LOL
“Presidential debate surprise: Clinton loses ground among some voters in swing state”
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article104382951.html
Nobody had a fatal hit against the other. I do not think this debate will change many minds. I think the momentum will continue to favor Trump, for now.
The liberal media thinks winning is about who would score more points in a college debate, or who lands the best quip. That is DEAD WRONG. It is more basic than that.
All Trump had to do was look presidential. He did that. For months now, the media have been spinning every word he says as racist/sexist. The deplorable monster. By standing next to Hillary and looking calm and mature, he put the lie to that narrative. Voters did not hear him say anything remotely objectionable or unprofessional. He was kind and gracious. He didn’t lose his cool under pressure/attack. Voters will now be comfortable seeing him in the oval.
I predict over the next 2 weeks Trump will jump up in the polls. It is over for Hillary.
Every Trump performance is judged as a failure…until the polls come out. At soome point we must recognize that Trump’s campaign in an unconventional one. He is kicking Hillary’s ass with comparably little money and simply incredible amounts of negative press…not to mention outright bias. We can only hope that democrats do not figure this out before it’s too late….but they never will because their common theorem is if something fails the only answer is to do twice as much. The more negative personal attacks they put on Trump, the better he does. It is like the “unobtainium” from the movie “The Core” where it only becomes stronger under ever greater pressure. They are bringing out ever stronger guns of destruction aiming them directly at Trumps big head. We see FT come out today predicting the end of the world if Trump wins. He has LOTS of people scared, and that makes me very happy.
nothing has changed. We have the 2 major candidates that have huge problems. I still “trust” Trump more than Hillary but that’s not saying much. At least with Trump we have an outside chance of seeing effective change. Bill Clinton was lucky with a Y2k economy where spending that had to occur generated jobs and tax revenues, that came to a crushing standstill right when 2000 started–see how fast Cisco growth came back to earth. Not to mention a bunch of dotcoms generating gobs of tax gains on sales.
Then we spent time hearing discussion about a bigger fool, Mark Cuban, sitting in the front row.
I am looking for a “hero”, somebody I would look up to, to want to run for President but I know that will not happen as the media will rip such a hero, male or female, white black or otherwise another rear end. And if the media does not do a good jobs on that then the Democrats and Republican parties will do it. (hint-DNC on Bernie and Bernie just threatened the elite and if Trump loses, then who in their right mind wants to be the next Rep nominee in 4 years?? Com to think about it, the Dem party has a similar problem.
Our country is very divided. Our failed leadership has a lot to do with that. Truth is, Obama has a better style of insulting the voter than does Trump. “you did not build that, or this will not cost you one thin dime. A big issue is we are bankrupt and our core strength has been dependent on financial strength, with a bit more than a dash of military strength.
I am just tired of the BS coming from the coasts.
I just do not see one of these two a) getting a big majority and b) gaining the respect of the majority of the population.
I felt Trump wa trying to look Presidential and thus prob missed the opening. But unless he really puts his foot in the mouth disease at bay, even if he doesnot do well it just does not matter looks like. At this rate he is going to make it. I think the bias of the media is a given by now
Trumpster has to save some of what you said for next debates, Needs to keep his powder dry and ready to use. He is short on specifics because he is not a career politician. As W.C. Fields said years ago, “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
I am in favor of neither. That said, I really detest Hillary.
I open every morning news here in Scandinavian welfare state and am not least surprised that CNN news were the only ones quoted in the mainstream media. If I’d be more sensitive, I might get the idea that someone is after Donald in a bad way. After watching or listening the news I do some fact checking and usually the reality is quite a bit different than our so called “reliable media” reflects. The media here has strong bias since I would say 70% of them leans to the left or are supporters of the Green movement. Judging by the news the number could be 99%.
Brainwashing has been constant here painting a very dark image of Mr. Trump and suggesting how wonderful Mrs. Clinton is in every respect.
They did the same when Ronald Reagan was fighting for presidency.
I wonder if the history will repeat itself?
Very much the same here in the uk with the bbc. I didn’t see the debate which was at 2am local; however the clips shown were all designed to show Trump in a poor light. The defacto bias in the polls in trump’s favour can only reflect the majority of people’s real feelings about Clinton – and they ain’t all that good! And what’s more they seem to be fairly firmly set by now. My take is that unless Trump drops dead with a heart attack, then he will win handsomely in a few weeks time.
By the way, whatever happened about Clinton pitching head first into her Chelsea tractor a couple of weeks ago? Trump let her get off lightly by merely stating she ‘lacked stamina’. The episode seems entirely forgotten. Quite apart from her awful policies, this is the biggest issue.
I actually stayed up and watched it and you are correct, within minutes the BBC was reporting a victory for Clinton. I thought Trump did ok, obviously he is not the preening, polished liar that a professional politician is but i thought is comments about ‘you have been in power for years and done nothing why will you start now’ was the comment of the night. Outside the media and tvland i think the US public like him.
This is why blogs like this are so important. The media is complicit to whomever.
And there is no other discussion allowed.
when Hillary said she had the stamina for 11 hours of benghazi hearing he should have had a reply as you said Hillary–what difference does it make–when you have the DOJ and FBI locked in to protect you.
The media in the US is neither left nor right. It is corporate owned and is more globalist than anything. Clinton perfectly represents that group: pro big-business at the expense of local business, pro-trade with low income countries at the expense US workers. Pro-war to impose the global corporate agenda and to shore up profits of American arms manufactures at the expense of human life. It’s the America Ronald Reagan built.
Trump is running against that machine. It will be a miracle if he wins.
Unfortunately, I fell asleep right as the debate started. Headlines I’m seeing this morning are all negative about Trump.
The rest of the world (especially Europe) thinks Obama is a God. Europeans are totally fed the propaganda from their far left media about U.S. politics. I was in Europe in 2012 during the Romney/Obama election and there was complete euphoria when Obama won. Let’s just say I got in a few heated arguments with the locals. There is so much propaganda in general about realities in the U.S. in Europe and the rest of the world. Very, very heavily slanted to socialist left.
ive always said the main problem with Trump is that he does not think before he speaks and he suffers greatly because of it. How someone went to Wharton and private school with that poor level of linguistic ability is beyond me. He also does not inform himself enough on various issues and i thought as i guessed it he does not prepare. Had he prepared he would have known the common what to jab her with. Quiet frankly i dont care who wins…Hillary wants to goto war with Russia and Trump would probably inadvertently end up with war with Russia by antagonizing either iran or china, our fates are sealed war is inevitable.
Donald Trump’s microphone was (deliberately) put in a lower position than Clinton’s, so that he was forced to bend over or lower his posture while speaking.
This nasty ‘arrangement’ may have had a negative influence on his television appearance and on his speaking capacities.
Trump is a protest vote, he wins by default if you can not prove that things are ok and the system is working.
Hillary did not prove that the system is well, she did not prove we are on the right track.
The worst thing anyone could of done to harm Trump would of been to have the major players embrace him. To have the establishment embrace him and to support him. “Win” or “lose” the debates doesn’t matter as long as he is more of a protest vote then anything else.
Trump isn’t gaining votes based off of ideas, policy or anything else that matters in a normal election. He’s getting votes based off of people hate the system so much they want to hire a arsonist to burn it down.
Trump was overly cautious but I am glad he did not go nuclear on Hillary. It would be a risky and unwise strategy when he is winning in the polls. He needs to ignore accusations and to stay on message (e.g. bring up the ‘movement’!) As long as he does not stumble in the debates, he wins!
Hillary made a lot of wild/baseless accusations on stage. This does not help with voters’ perception of her honesty and integrity. She appeared healthy and strong throughout the debate which is a plus. She was great at reciting prepared speeches from the past few weeks of practice. But the job of the President is to make decisions and not to read special interests’ prepared speeches! The risk with preparedness is that she could be utterly lost on stage. For example, her campaign manager stumbled badly on live TV when asked about her position on sanctuary city recently.
Lester was biased. He went after Trump a number of times but never after Hillary. That helps Trump.
Nothing bad happened so I call it a draw (but that is winning for Trump.)
When the idiots return the Muslim Commie back to the WH, I gave up on political circuses.
Now we have a serial lying, warmongering criminal running for President when she should be under indictment. So my choice in the race has been easy, that candidate that provides me the best possibility that this crook does not get in office, thus Trump.
Having said that, Trump may actually surprise people for the better because after all that has been said about him, he has been a success in his life on several levels and usually that is not by chance. And he has been successful overseas which doesn’t happen by bullying people – that is, it take a skillful level of diplomacy. Having done business around the world, I know this first hand.
While Trump is somewhat of an unknown, I do know Hillary and she should be in jail for many crimes she has committed throughout her life starting with the criminality she clear exhibited to Chief Council to the House Judiciary Committee, Jerome Zeifman. I know this for a fact, having discussed Hillary’s crimes with him for many hours on the phone before his death several years back.
Mr. Zeifman spent many years of his life, right up until his death, warning people about this Psychotic Bitch. So getting the opportunity to vote for Trump I view with great pleasure because he is one of the few in many decades that might not only win but do well to try and unwind the corrupt globalist warmongers in Washington as a true outsider.
BTW This is a very interesting article out on ZH about Hillary’s largest supporter Dr, Evil himself – Georgie Soros.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-26/george-soros-false-flag-factories
Did anyone else hear Hillary say about Trump, “Who has said women don’t deserve equal pay unless they do as good a job as men.” ?
Horrors, Donald. You said that? Such a thing to say! My gracious.
I think Trump won the first 30 minutes and Hillary won the rest. Winning the first 30 minutes is very important since that’s when most people are viewing and/or paying attention. The fact that Hillary stood through the whole thing without any obvious medical issues is a victory for her. Although, she does have a weird issue with her eyes when she looks strongly to one side. She should avoid doing that.
I suspect Trump is keeping his powder dry – leaving all the truly outrageous/contentious/damaging stuff for the last debate to resonate in voters minds after all the debating is over. I cannot believe he simply ‘forgot’ some of the things that would have hurt Hillary – try to keep it civil until the final debate then come out with all guns blazing. However, I am curious about the bump under her jacket………..
The main thing that I noticed was the TOTAL bias for the Democrat Party candidate, even down to the fact that the ENTIRE backdrop was blue. Maybe the next debate we can have the entire backdrop red? And Hi LIAR y may have actually made a tactical error wearing red.
But to ask her absolutely NO pointed questions is absurd and will only galvanize those against her – and make the undecideds who actually read think the “fix” is in.
Donald Trump’s microphone was (deliberately) put in a lower position than Clinton’s, so that he was forced to bend or lower his posture while speaking.
This nasty ‘arrangement’ may have had a negative influence on his television appearance, his speaking capacities and spirit.
Yes. I watched with a democrat who said “whats up with the moderator?”
I hope you took the opportunity to turn and say, “And THAT is the filter ALL the information you get about her is processed through”.
When the moderator started arguing with Trump over whether or not Trump supported the war on Iraq (he didn’t), it looked like the debate would switch to Trump vs moderator. The bias was extremely obvious at that point.
Trump seemed to stumble a bit in making his points. I knew what he was trying to say about the Hillary campaign first raising the birther issue, but he described this poorly. Also, he went on a bit too much about Hannity regarding his position against the Iraq war. I think he’ll do better at the next one. The establishment cannot allow him to win, evident in the itch question bias, and he will have to battle it as well as Hillary in the debates. But if Hillary is going to attack him as sexist, he has to counter with Bill Clinton’s behavior including the rape allegation.
Wow, so that’s what a woman with Late Stage Parkinson’s looks like Mish?
She put that to bed for a while. Her voice broke subtly toward guteral in the late-middle, and her walk to the front row was feeble, but nothing out of the ordinary for an unathletic older lady.
See that’s the problem with the anti-Clinton side. We are given outrageous accusations but at the end of the day they either don’t pan out at all or they turn out to be so much less. To the anti-Clinton fanatic, this isn’t a problem at all. To them smoke just confirms there’s fire. To everyone else we just see an intellectual deadbeat whose checks have been bouncing for so long it doesn’t really matter what they say anymore.
Brian – “See that’s the problem with the anti-Clinton side.” Let’s talk about the problem with the pro-Clinton side: 99% of all media, multinational corporations, George Soros, arms dealers, weapons manufacturers, the military-industrial complex, Wall Street, pharmaceutical and insurance companies. That’s a pretty big side, especially when it controls what we see, read and hear.
When I hear that even the moderator was biased, asking no pointed questions of Hitlery, that doesn’t surprise me. Of course, it doesn’t work because people actually are smart enough to notice these things. They’re not stupid.
Oh, and there is actually a “fire” around Hillary. In fact, it’s a conflagration, a giant red ball of lies, deceit and corruption. There’s still smoke coming out of her tail end from erasing all of her emails and destroying her servers.
If the media went after Hillary like they do Trump, she’d be sucking her thumb in a corner somewhere. She’s only able to stand because she is being propped up by big money and a bought-and-paid-for media.
“That’s a pretty big side, especially when it controls what we see, read and hear.”
See none of those people controlled Mish’s claim that Hillary was exhibiting late stage Parkinson’s. None of those people controlled Trump for 5+ years when he was shilling for the Birtherism groups.
Perhaps in some alternative universe legitimate complaints about running special favors for military contractors and insurance companies were pressed instead. That universe might be a nice place to visit but your side hasn’t lifted a single finger to move us closer to that universe so don’t complain now about ‘military-industrial complexes’. If this mattered to you, you wouldn’t have spent so much time in a playpen.
Teflon Don vs the Human Tomato! 🍅
Clintons, especially Willy, have been described as teflon for decades now. You need a different adjective for The Donald.
In the front row for Hillary :
~ Billionaire Mark Cuban
~ Pulse nightclub killer Omar Mateen’s father
~ Billionaire George Soros
In the front row for Donald :
~ Bill’s mistress Gennifer Flowers
~ Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams
~ Boxing promoter Don King
Escorted off the campus of Hofstra University :
~ Jill Stein
~ Gary Johnson
~ Ralph Nader
LMAO, what a country we have become!
The nightclub scene from “Star Wars” freak show.
Stein and Johnson should record a debate for YouTube.
It’s a good idea, maybe they’ll do it.
There is a Stein-Johnson debate on Democracy Now today, moderated by Amy Goodman.
Basically Trump won. The fact that liberals so desperately want to believe that she won, and use that to further shame the ‘deplorables’ who against all their logic still believe that Trump won? Priceless. Oh, and Trump won.
We even got a Rosie O’Donnell and a Howard Stern mention? Ahahahaha! Best debate ever
I am pretty sure that Trump had at least 70% of the actual speaking time. I feel like the Human Tomato just stood by with that retarded grin on her face mostly laughing at her own jokes.
For all that anyone may not like Trump, you could tell he was mostly speaking from the heart and with emotion. This country desperately needs help and he wants to help it. Unlike the Human Tomato who is just a robot and very good at repeating stale rehashed soundbites with no substance behind them. ‘of course I have a plan – go buy my book to find out what it is’ (btw, a horrible flop and terrible reviews on amazon)
I saw the opposite. Clinton spoke slightly more? I can’t find a stat on google.
Someone needs to replay the debate and time how much each candidate got to speak. My impression was Clinton got more time. But it may just have seemed like more since her voice is like fingernails on a blackboard to me.
US Army Private Bradley Manning : imprisoned for mishandling classified materials.
US intelligence analyst Edward Snowden : exiled in Russia for releasing of classified materials.
US Army General David Petraeus : fined, dismissed from CIA and forced to retire for mishandling classified materials.
Hillary Rodham Clinton: on stage in US presidential debate as Democratic Party nominee after multiple instances of mishandling classified materials.
Trump demonstrated yet again how unqualified he is to be president.
Yes, we need a Ivy-League lawyer who reads a good teleprompter, doesn’t interfere when his/her strings are being pulled, easily lies, and could give a sh*t about the average person. It’s more important that they spew out cookie-cutter mean-nothing full sentences than speak from the heart.
Hillary is going down.
I had to laugh when Hillary started out with the warm fuzzy meaningless platitudes. Her claim to be for the middle class & little guys is the ultimate hypocrisy, proven by the fact that all of Wall St and the Big Crooks are supporting her.
I saw the first 30 minute segment and thought Hillary did much better,more detailed and refined, Trump still a one-note Johnny with “I’m a better negotiator” schtick.
Holt’s questions were biased against Trump but that could not have been a surprise. Trump never made his NAFTA and TPP criticisms stick, a quick 60s-70s comment “you can’t be part of the solution if you’ve been part of the problem for 20 years” would have gotten the message across.
I don’t know how the final hour went, I had reached my pain threshold at 30 min break.
I think Hillary is vulnerable, I hope Trump refines and tightens his message for the undecideds.
I’m voting for Trump, both candidates are flawed but I’m willing to try some new flaws.
Trump is absolutely right when he says the US been doing a terrible job negotiating with the rest of the world, and I do expect him to improve on that problem. Maybe the problem is that too many Americans do not realize it. I liked the way Donald pointed out some of the mistakes. The Clinton camp uses their tried & true “just ignore it” for their defense.
You should have watched longer than 30 minutes. he said exactly the comment about her being part of the problem. What is it with some Americans, you will comment on a website but not bother to watch the bloody debate.
Trump missed opportunities but didn’t do poorly, Hillary was smug and insulting.
Trump could have pointed out that her comments about cyber security were ridiculous coming form someone who so knowingly has put the US national security at risk with her own private email server.
And, at the end when she was insulting him about his past comments on some unpleasant women who had insulted him, all he need have said was, “I have made some intemperate comments about some unpleasant women in my past, but, I have NEVER enabled a rapist,” as she has done for Bill and for the rapist of a 12 year old girl she defended as a lawyer.
Hitlary’s debate counselors seem to have told her: “you are so vulnerable in so many areas, you need to keep Donald on the defensive so he won’t get to attack you”. I think Hitlary has a better team advising her on how to persuade people, especially Robert Cialdini. Trump seems to rely more on his own talent.
Great critique….wish Trump would have thought of those lines!
Decent 1st debate. I could argue either side won…as if that matters…it doesn’t.
But being a TRUMP supporter I was disappointed that Trump’s “pimp hand” was not strong.
I have found debates to be of questionable value going back to the first debates between Kennedy and Nixon. I’m voting for Trump and may not bother watching the other debates.
I’m voting for Trump, but like you I go crazy when I see Trump miss opportunities to make his point.
Holt peppered him for saying he supported the Iraq war. All Trump has to say is “Lester, I was a private citizen whose opinion at the time meant nothing. Hillary was a senator who voted to go to war after failing to read the intelligence briefing. She has poor judgement and doesn’t do her homework when it really counts. She has since apologized, and admitted she was wrong. Sixteen years later, we are still cleaning up her mess.”
He could then go to link this to Libya and her email scandal, another mess where she admitted poor judgement. Now he building a case using her own words and admissions.
It would be very easy for him to position himself as the peace candidate and her as the war monger and thereby turn the tables on her. He is the stable one, she creates chaos wherever she goes.
Kellyanne Conway are you listening?? You’re doing a great job, but you need to get this message out.
Completely agree that he is not connecting the dots. in regards to his taxes when questioned he should have said.
As I said all along I will release them once the audit is complete and then asked the Secretary when is she going to release her Goldman Sachs transcripts. As I recall, Secretary, you declared, you would release them when all the other candidates release theirs. Well, I have, Secretary, so when can we expect them?
Or the emails.
Yes, what about those Secretary, you deleted 33K of emails of a “personal nature” Ok.. I delete emails every day, I click delete and then at some point empty my recycle bin. Why did you need to contract someone to delete your emails for you? Do you not know how to delete them, its very easy, just click delete like every one else in the world. So you decided to hire a firm to make sure those emails were deleted so no one could ever find them.. I see.. Oh and they were personal ones to your husband. That’s interesting because Bill says he has only sent 2 emails in his life. So what about the other 32.998?
You can go on and on and on with her. This isn’t hard. He needs to focus. And Im not a Trump supporter, I just think she is the worst person on the planet to have the job.
Right on, Pinwheel. Trump also missed the opportunity to point out that the present administration including Hitlary CREATED ISIS. He didn’t hit hard enough on that point. He said ISIS stepped into a vacuum, but left out the support they got from the administration. Maybe he’s afraid the American people are too uninformed to accept that yet?
I agree she created ISIS is a bridge too far for the American people to comprehend, although it is true. Her policy is regime change, that is, over throwing sovereign governments who won’t accept U.S. hegemony and she will use terrorists to accomplish her goals. Her coup in the Ukraine was designed to overthrow Putin and we can see how that worked out.
I think Trump did a pretty good job of the pinning ISIS on Clinton and Obama. I wish he had used Obama’s clueless old line about ISIS being a JV Team.
If the country wasn’t so pissed off, Clinton speaking in meaningless platitudes would be the winning strategy. Her Cheshire Cat grin would be just what the doctor ordered.
However, this country is in a bad place and Trump’s tough guy scowl and straight talk is more in keeping with the general mood.
The media are funny. They are totally clueless about how this is all playing. They want to go to their happy place, aka, the Big Lie.
Nothing new, I was watching mainly to see seizures, weird eye movements or maybe a collapse. No anti-women insults either so that counts as a plus for Trump with the women in the house.
I fear Trump more than I love tax cuts. And I do love tax cuts. She did what all who debated him before could not: balanced dignity with aggression. He has met his match, finally.
She condemns private prisons as profit driven. Wish Trump had asked whether the prison guards and their unions Work out of a sense of philanthropy. Public prison guards are a core leg of the prison industrial complex. Owned Dems here in Californian.
I think Trump was trying to appeal to the undecided
What happened that would change anyone’s vote?
Remember what Trump’s son said the other day
Hillary hubristic, hypocritically critical of policies she helped to create, constant SEG, helped by obviously partial moderator. Trump a bit nervous, self-conscious and put on the defensive. Came across as straight-talking, more honest and more human. Probably a technical win for Hillary, but only technical. Brexit II coming unless disaster befalls Trump between now and Nov. 8.
The discussion points were slated in Hillary’s favor and she did reasonably well. However, that is not the critical issue. Trump has been presented as the demon personified. He came off as “reasonable”, defending himself from biased questions with appropriate arguments.
The American people are still anti-tax right center, so they should lean towards his policies. They just need to believe that he will not embarrass the country.
On that basis he won the debate.
I watched with 2 female Dems – both thought Hillary sounded robotic & were surprised by how rational & sensible Trump appeared.
In a Bloomberg morning newsletter I receive, the only commentary regarding the debate results was this:
“A CNN poll showed that 62 percent of voters who watched last night’s presidential candidate’s debate felt that Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, won.”
Weren’t there any other viewer polls ?…lol
Mish,
You are missing the point. Trump did not have to do anything. All he had to do was let Hillary speak her mind and people will be repelled by her ideas and demeanor. He did not have to attack her, just give her rope to hang herself which she did nicely. He had to be the nice guy that came across as genuine which he did. Clinton was anything but genuine and it came across. Trump came across as concerned about America and the average guy.
“BREAKING: CNN now prepared to call 2016 North Korean Workers’ Party of Korea election for Kim Jong-un, with 100% of the vote.”
CNN is not a news organization.
I am not a supporter of either but Trump missed an opportunity to go down her extensive list of scandals and wars to discredit her. Those he did mention were not backed by any details. She is an easy target that he couldn’t seem to hit. Clinton filled the air with lies and half-truths.
After the debate I walked away disappointed, as expected. I felt I could have debated Clinton and won by a landslide. She has provided all the ammo needed but Trump picked up a .22 instead of the RPG.
What came out was the neither appeared horrible. Hilary seemed healthy and she needed to prove that for a few percentage points. Debate goes to Hillary. In football it was a 24-14 type win. Long way to go. I detest both.
“It says a great deal about the US political system that, out of 330 million people in America, the choice for president has been narrowed down to these two individuals, both members of the financial aristocracy….”
“Trump is the personification of business gangsterism…”
“Clinton is the personification of political gangsterism…”
“The capitalist two-party system in America has never put a premium on intelligence or truth. It has always been based on politicians who represent the interests of a narrow stratum at the top of society, while pretending to speak for all of the people.”
“Whatever the outcome of the election, whether Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton replaces Barack Obama in the White House, the next administration will be the most reactionary government in the history of the country, committed to a program of imperialist war, social austerity and attacks on democratic rights.”
Selected quotes from “Clinton-Trump debate: A degrading spectacle”
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/09/27/deba-s27.html
No real winners…
One will be designated as such, but “the people” will lose either way…
unless you happen to believe Corporations are people too.
If Trump is elected and he stops or even greatly curtails war, that is not a loss for the country. That is a big “win”.
I don’t know if anyone else noticed this, but Hillary didn’t come across as too vibrant, healthy and energetic to me. Like someone who is ready for the insane rigors of at least 4 yrs of a very tough 7 day a week job. She looked kind of tired.
You have to have respect for the balls it takes for Trump to get up there in front of 100 million people and not choke under the pressure. Hillary has been in politics for 40 yrs, been around Bill’s dozens and dozens her whole life, and been so much a part of the political scene. But this is all new for Trump, so I think it’s impressive that he held up against a career politician and didn’t completely embarrass himself.
I meant to say “been around Bills dozens and dozens of debates”
Trump lost the debate. He didn’t win the first 20 minutes. He sputtered on about various trade pacts which most people don’t know about and ultimately reduced down to a talking point that Hillary has as did every other Presidential candidate for the last 30+ years (“I’ll make good trade deals that help jobs in the US, not bad ones”). When people here say he ‘won’ this part of the debate what they really mean is he briefly came off as a normal candidate.
But ultimately the US does not have a trade problem and twiddling with trade agreements is not going to reverse the decline in manufacturing, the rise in service based jobs one iota.
The rest of the debate was Trump unable to complete sentences, unable to stay on a topic, throwing out nonsense left and right….(we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq, but we shouldn’t have left, or we should have left and taken the oil….but ‘taking the oil’ means staying there 100 years with our troops trying to run oil wells and fend off suicide bombers at the same time). His attempt to defend Birtherism as somehow helping Obama put the issue behind him was pathetic and laughable and horribly long winded (far too much detail about this reporter or that and missed the point by a mile….whether or not some Hillary Democrats toyed with it 8 years ago, Trump ran with it for years on end. He either has to apologize for it or defend it as a reasonable line of inquiry). Time and again Trump seemed to propose a rule that anything a Democrat does on their worst day sets the bar for what he does everyday. Perhaps the capstone was Trump trying to claim he never bashed Hillary’s looks (which he did of course) but instead questions her stamina…..which looked pathetic given he was clearly unable to keep his composure past the first few minutes and by that point in the debate acted like he was on the verge of a total freakout (ohhh lots of panicky water drinking all through the debate, he made Rubio’s infamous water sip during the State of the Union response look as classy as a “Most Interesting Man in the World” commercials.
The Donald didn’t self-destruct; I was sure that he would. I think he’s finally listening to his experts and learning. That puts Hillary in big trouble. Remember Obama’s first debate debacle with Romney? Trump did much better, comparatively, last night.
And, while the interruptions were bad form, they reinforced the impression of status quo rejection that is resonating with left-behind-flyover-America.
In fact, I think Hillary’s obvious shilling for the poor college kid indentured servants was a huge mistake. We lack $20 Billion being able to shoulder another $1.3 Billion and all future gargantuan gouging by the rent seekers of academe.
It ain’t over as I thought it would be this morning.
Presidential debates = laughably superficial discussions presenting the usually erroneous conventional “wisdom” to a mostly uninformed audience sprinkled with campaign promises which very often aren’t carried out once in office. In other words, a total waste of my time.
Ha! I meant trillions, not billions. If Senator Everett Dirksen were alive, he’d be saying, ‘a trillion here a trillion there, pretty soon you’re talking real money.’
“@toddstarnes Lester Holt should’ve moderated — instead of auditioning to be Hillary’s press secretary.”
2 against 1. Debate fraud.
You have to always remind yourself that the candidates have different needs in a debate. This isn’t a college debate contest, though most liberals seem to think it is. So, first we need to identify what each candidate needed last night, and what they still need in the next two.
Hillary Clinton- her problem has always been the same problem and that is that a majority of voters just don’t like her. It isn’t that she doesn’t seem presidential or that people think she isn’t up to the job, they just don’t trust her and don’t want to think about having to listen to her for the next 4-8 years. In addition to that, in the last two weeks, she has had to deal with the health suspicions. So, her needs were to be more likable and try to dispel the doubts about her vitality. She helped herself on the second of those a great deal, but in choosing to try to make Trump look foolish and unpresidential with the non-stop negative attacks, she did nothing to ameliorate the former problem- the negativity actually works to reinforce her first problem. I thought it was a mistake, even if it did manage to sidetrack Trump in the last hour by getting him on the defensive the rest of the debate. Indeed, I thought hers was the most negative and uninspiring debate performance I have ever seen in a presidential debate. I think this goes a long way to explaining the online polls that had her losing last night.
Trump’s main problem is that outside his supporters, there was doubt about his temperament. I think going into this debate he and his staff chose to be more positive about their plans for change and to lay off the negative stuff altogether. He did that admirably for the first 30 minutes, but got dragged down somewhat after that by the unrelenting and mostly personal attacks from Clinton. Yes, he did miss a number of good opportunities for ripostes, but here is the thing that I noticed late last night and this morning as I read some of the analyses- everyone, both Trump supporters and Trump opponents, were talking about those missed opportunities, which indicates to me that whether or not he deliberately avoided them, he didn’t need to make the point himself, people already knew Clinton’s weakness on the matter. I think it is likely the undecideds who were watching knew this, too, and if they didn’t, the analysts on both sides remind them of it. I think in their zeal to make Trump look dumb, liberal commentators have undermined their own candidate by making these points for Trump.
Overall, I thought Trump missed a golden opportunity to put it away. Had he stayed positive the entire 90 minutes rather than just the first 30, and ignored the mud Clinton kept slinging in his direction, he would have finished her off last night. As it was, he did manage to accomplish the main thing he needed- to not seem like a lunatic or even a nasty person. Indeed, Clinton came off as the nastier of the two, and that smug demeanor she wore all of last night was an error, and I doubt she even realizes it. On points, she won by a landslide, but on what really mattered last night, likability, she lost pretty badly. I think that is what the online polls show, and the snap poll by CNN was ridiculous right from the start since the sample before the debate was already pro-Clinton by 26%. Clinton was preaching to the choir, Trump at least tried preaching to people outside his church. In the subsequent debates, I suspect Trump will get better, and I am not sure what Clinton will do- I kind of suspect she can’t help herself but try to be smug and condescending.
I also think Trump could hit Hillary back harder when she attacks his business career. He should talk more about how he has been an entrepreneur his whole life, entrepreneurs have to take risks to create something out of nothing, sometimes those risks fail. But without someone taking a financial risk, you have no new jobs or companies. And talk about how Hillary has never taken a business risk in her life and been on the public payroll her whole life, and never created one job her whole life. All her wealth has 100% come from politics and her husbands fame.
Good point. Trump created wealth the American way as an entrepreneur. How did Clinton go from being broke to having over 200 million dollars in the bank?
This quote from democrat Harry Truman answers your question, Pi:
“You can’t get rich in politics unless you’re a crook”.
I did not watch the debate, but I sincerely hope that the next president won’t be elected based on a mud slinging contest such as the TV debates. If democracy fails as a system, it will certainly be caused by driving the standards of selecting a leader ever lower.
“If democracy fails as a system”
It already mostly has by allowing this situation to evolve, a worldwide situation I suspect. From the groundbreaking 2014 Princeton University study which got virtually no attention in the US MSM (which makes a very significant part of its income from election ads) :
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
Excerpts:
A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues.
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
…the preferences of economic elites (as measured by our proxy, the preferences of “affluent” citizens) have far more independent impact upon policy change than the preferences of average citizens do. To be sure, this does not mean that ordinary citizens always lose out; they fairly often get the policies they favor, but only because those policies happen also to be preferred by the economically-elite citizens who wield the actual influence.
The following are only part of Adam’s episode on “voting.” What’s hilarious is that after pointing out these and some other ways (not even close to all of them) in which the system is totally rigged, at the end of the show they tried to push “don’t be discouraged… vote(!!??) to change this.” Hilarious. Can’t lift the facade of voter control too much for the proles, they might get out their torches and pitchforks.
“Now [the United States is] just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president. And the same thing applies to governors and U.S. senators and congress members. So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over. – Jimmy Carter, former president, in 2015.
“Allowing people and corporate interest groups and others to spend an unlimited amount of unidentified money has enabled certain individuals to swing any and all elections, whether they are congressional, federal, local, state … Unfortunately and rarely are these people having goals which are in line with those of the general public. History well shows that there is a very selfish game that’s going on and that our government has largely been put up for sale.” – John Dingell, 29-term Democratic congressman from Michigan, in 2014 just before he retired.
“When some think tank comes up with the legislation and tells you not to fool with it, why are you even a legislator anymore? You just sit there and take votes and you’re kind of a feudal serf for folks with a lot of money.” – Dale Schultz, 32-year Republican state legislator in Wisconsin and former state Senate Majority Leader, in 2013 before retiring
Taco Bell has been running a commercial the last couple of months that I think is a good analogy to this election:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KafunTAlIGM
Trump and his supporters is the guy eating the burrito, Clinton and her supporters are the hosts.
Why Would You Vote for a Man This Insecure?
Trump can’t resist reliving his own humiliation.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a48965/trump-miss-universe-weight/
Pingback: Hillary Clinton as the more effective evil | Phil Ebersole's Blog
I watched the debate. Start to finish. Trump did, in fact, mention that Hillary was behind the attack on Libya and regime change – then the terrorists took over. He also said that Hillary enabled the terrorists to take over Iraq. So you must have missed that.
Trump wasn’t just debating Hillary last night. He was debating Lester Holt too. Holt would constantly lob Hillary a big fat softball and set Trump up for an attack. He hit on all the anti-Trump questions (taxes, race, birther jab, etc…) and failed to ask Hillary about any of the multiple scandals that plague her. The entire debate was rigged in favor of Hillary. Holt even accused Trump of endorsing the Iraq war when Trump adamantly expressed his opposition to going into Iraq prior to the invasion.
Holt is a phony RINO. If he’s a conservative Republican I’m Rin-Tin-Tin.
But I fully expected the media to behave this way before Trump was even nominated. Big business hates Trump because they’re scared he will try to extract the bezzle from Wall Street. All the big money is behind Hillary. So far she’s spent over $200M to assassinate Trump’s character and Trump is still neck ‘n neck with her.
Trump has some work ahead of him. It’s going to be incredibly difficult for him to beat the corrupted system that is fighting him and supporting Hillary.
All we can do is keep our fingers crossed.
Here, doggie! You said you were Rin Tin Tin, didn’t you?
Hey Genius – conservative Republicans don’t rig debates in favor of the Democratic candidate.
Duh? Get a clue.
I think is is actually difficult for him to not sound like the misogynistic know-nothing that he is! Stop grasping at straws and being so desperate and accept that DT is doing this to negotiate a better contract on the Apprentice and that we will soon be saying ” Madam President”!
Madam president my butt. Try “Your Holiness Queen Bitch Hillary”.
You think TRUMP would have boned up on the debating disciplines! All that time over the summer WTF was he doing? The faces, shaking head, then I got so and so to back me. What are we in the first farkn grade ! Did he roll over? Does he want this? If he is serious it will be 12 hour days with the best coaching and staff educating him. Does he believe he does NOT need to do the homework? If he thinks he can walk in cold he will get spanked again by a charlatan and we will face 4 yrs of same old same old.
Many would agree that Hillary won debate 1 on style points. it is a safe bet that Trump cannot change his style at this point, and so his handlers have go to work with what they have. I think they can do that quite well, and develop a devastating debate performance for the remaining debates.
How? Develop a short list of Hillary vulnerabilities and keep punching at these.
E.g.:
1. Iraq, Syria, Libya. Poor judgement and more neocon wars.
2. Wall Street fellatios – demand that she release the text of the speeches. And don’t let her control the narrative of why we had the last crash. Bring it back to massive fraud caused by her circle of friends. Tie it into the growing wealth disparity in the country.
3. Bill’s sexist behavior and her cover up of same.
4. Career political hack.
5. Never having met a job destroying trade agreement she didn’t like. Keep blasting her on the TPP. And NAFTA.
6. Using the African-American community for votes, but changing nothing. Predatory blacks, etc.
7. Failing to keep us safe at home.
If Trump keeps punching on these, even if he doesn’t answer the questions, she will have nowhere to hide. And please do a better job of describing the origins of the birther issue. Simplify it. Many sheeple haven’t a clue.
There are not a lot of undecided voters. There are a remarkable number of Johnson and Stein voters. One of the reasonable people did a focus group, mentioned on one of the networks, and asked the Trump and Clinton supporters how many of them had their mind changed by the debate. The count was …ZERO.
I am reminded of the famous Ford-Carter debate and Ford’s statement about Eastern Europe. There were few pollsters back then. I waited with modest interest for the local paper — Santa Monica Evening Outlook — to report the Gallup report on who won the debate, as opposed to what commentators said. It finally appeared days later, on a rear page, reporting that the people polled preferred Ford over Carter by a bit. We should await the polling results and see what we shall see.
Daniel Kibblesmith ✔ @kibblesmith
Your closing statements, please.
CLINTON: I killed Bin Laden.
TRUMP: I told Rosie O’Donnell what’s what.#Debates2016
Now that is what I call acting Presidential, kind of like these bozos on this blog
*Trump walks into debate*
“One thing’s for sure: Bring up Rosie O’Donnell of my own volition*
HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!!!!
Wow, this guy has class.
Poetic Justice: How Two Immigrants, A Muslim Man And A Latina, Sealed Trump’s Fate
First, Trump went after the Khan family. Now he’s maligning Alicia Machado.
09/27/2016 01:46 pm ET
Ryan Grim
Washington bureau chief for The Huffington Post
Emily Peck
Executive Editor, Business and Technology, The Huffington Post
X
As the most bigoted campaign in modern memory stumbles toward a close, it’s perfectly fitting that two immigrants ― a woman from Venezuela and a man from Pakistan ― may have delivered the fatal blows to Donald Trump.
First it was the GOP nominee’s self-defeating, relentless bullying of the Muslim American parents of Capt. Humayun Khan after the slain soldier’s father, Khizr Khan, denounced Trump at the Democratic National Convention. Trump’s unhinged and hostile remarks, which continued against the counsel of all his advisers and any sense of decency, were directed at deeply sympathetic figures and drove a mass defection from his campaign by fellow Republicans.
Now, the former reality TV star has set his sights on another sympathetic target, former Miss Universe Alicia Machado, whom he had previously called “Miss Piggy” and referred to as “Miss Housekeeping,” as Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton noted in Monday night’s debate.
If there are any women still on the fence about Trump, these latest comments should send them screaming into Clinton’s arms.
But Trump wasn’t finished. He is preternaturally incapable of not responding to an attack ― a frightening trait in a man who wants to be president. Calling in to “Fox & Friends” on Tuesday morning, he unleashed on Machado again ― as the Clinton campaign surely suspected he would.
Not only do Trump’s attacks display an outlandish degree of misogyny and Islamophobia, but perhaps more crucially, his outsized bullying of regular people exposes the phoniness of his so-called populism.
Trump wasn’t even asked on-air about Machado, who has indicated she will vote for Clinton in November. He was responding to a question about whether Clinton had gotten under his skin, but his self-destructive answer quickly veered into an attack on the beauty queen.
“She was the worst we ever had, the worst, the absolute worst. She was impossible,” he said. “She was a Miss Universe contestant and ultimately a winner who they had a tremendously difficult time with.”
“Did not know that story,” Fox host Steve Doocy offered before attempting to move on. Trump interrupted him, fixated on demolishing the woman he insisted on referring to as “this girl.”
“She was the winner, and she gained a massive amount of weight, and it was a real problem … Not only that, her attitude, and we had a real problem with her,” Trump continued. “So Hillary went back into the years and found this girl … and talked about her like she was Mother Teresa, and it wasn’t quite that way, but that’s okay.”
Trump had previously called Machado an “eating machine” and admitted he’d told her to lose weight. The attacks, Machado says now, pushed her toward an eating disorder and left her psychologically scarred.
“I was sick — anorexia and bulimia for five years,” she told the The New York Times in May. “I was 18. My personality wasn’t created yet. I was just a girl.”
The Machado and Khan incidents may seem like random bouts of good luck for Clinton, but they are, in fact, an indication that it’s useful to run a functional campaign. In both cases, the Clinton camp elevated Machado and the Khans, and did so strategically, with an understanding that Trump would likely overreact. He didn’t disappoint.
As president, Trump would face adversaries who also think strategically ― and his inability to keep his cool could have untold geopolitical consequences.
Not only do Trump’s attacks display an outlandish degree of misogyny and Islamophobia, but perhaps more crucially, his outsized bullying of regular people exposes the phoniness of his so-called populism.
That it was exposed by representatives of two populations Trump has especially demonized is, quite likely, an irony too rich for him to recognize.
That last comment seems longer than Mish’s original blog. Combine Van’s latest and it is twice as long. Fortunately did not have to read any further than
“As the most bigoted campaign in modern memory stumbles toward a close, …….”
Hmmm, anybody see a wee bit of bias in the first sentence? I’ll bet Van missed it. Pass him some more Kool-Aid, he might be waking up.
Watch Hillary Clinton’s Best Takedowns At The First Presidential Debate
“Well Donald I know you live in your own reality.”
09/27/2016 12:16 am ET | Updated 4 hours ago
Jenavieve Hatch
Associate Women’s Editor, The Huffington Post
X
It’s official: Monday night’s presidential debate had a clear winner, and that winner was Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Throughout the 90-minute debate, Clinton remained measured and respectful while Donald Trump consistently interrupted both her and debate moderator Lester Holt.
Donald Trump refused to acknowledge his former comments he made suggesting climate change is a hoax. He insulted her stamina. He evaded questions about his mysterious history of paying (or not paying) income tax, and the unconstitutional “stop and frisk” system of preventing crime and race relations and police violence responses were all arguably disastrous.
And of course, it wouldn’t be a night with Donald Trump without some casual, unapologetic misogyny.
But Clinton more than held her own ― in fact, she totally dominated.
Wow, and to think y’all want him to be your daddy!
Holt and Hillary were tied at the hip and ganged up on Trump. It was 2 against 1. Holt asked all the usual anti-Trump questions and threw ZERO hardballs at Hillary.
Trump is 100% correct.
The system is rigged. All the big money that owns Hillary wants the status quo. A 5th grader could figure it out.
No, DT is an obnoxious, unqualified punk. Sorry to tell you this, but the whole world isn’t 60 plus years old and white and from the Midwest. Your world view is going away and us brown people are going to be the majority. In fact, I think your daughter or granddaughter may just get with a brown person, male or female, whichever she picks! So, Welcome, Brave New World with less old white dinosaurs!
I see that apparently you don’t have the brains to counter my arguments based on your unrelated crass and uncivilized personal attack response by playing the race card and bringing my family into it.
Let me guess – you’re a liberal democrat? ha.
If I had a daughter I would teach her to marry up. So by the ignorant tone of your response there would be no chance of her marrying into your family. ha.
Enjoy the rest of your day. Go visit the zoo.
Van you just totally lost the argument when you reverted to ad hominems.
I am a liberal in New York. Trump did say some things that I very much have to agree with:
He said that it costs 4 times more to build roads than it should. I agree with this completely when I think of the 11 years that the City contractors have been working on Houston Street or several years on St Marks Place or even the 2nd Avenue subway.
Trump also said that he would lower income taxes. Again I have to agree with him on this. Why shouldn’t people who work hard pay less? I am tired of paying for people who do not contribute.
Trump was correct that in fact, crime has risen in the USA and certainly here in NYC (though it is far less than it was in the 1970’s and 1980’s.
There are things that bother me about Trump but when I hear that Hillary not only wants to raise personal taxes, but also wants to redistribute business earnings, I will take the risk and vote for Trump.
Obviously Jason you are a thinking liberal. Since that is an oxymoron you need to reconsider your label.
There was no real debate with the way the questions were asked. Trump would have been better off just reciting a speech the way Hillary did. The next town hall debate will tell us more. Hillary won’t be able to relate to the average voter the way Trump will because she has never worked in a capacity where she had to stay employed or make a profit. She is still hiding and the smart people can now see that. I suspect she will win and the chickens will come home to roost. The next recession will cause soaring deficits and severe cuts in all forms of spending just to pay the IOUs we owe to China and others. I now feel Hillary and her ilk deserve to win and own these problems they have created over the last generation. If Trump wins, the public will falsely blame him for the problems created by politicians who sold out our country.
trump looked unprepared for his first debate and left some great chances to drop her on cyber security (she had an insecure server as sec of state) and she pretty much said we are all racist at heart. the wild cards are: julian assange is going to drop some clinton bombs closer to election, typical democrat voting fraud and clinton’s health is still an issue.
Another missed opportunity was when Trump said he will release his tax return when she releases 33,000 emails. He could have said: “Or, how about just releasing the secret transcripts of your overpaid speeches?”
hillary reminded me of the robotic bear that I saw at showbiz pizza when I was a kid reading from typical democrat script. she looked like a puppet. also seemed like she was wearing a girdle or something to help her stand in her chairman mao outfit.
Chairman Mao outfit? I didn’t think of that, how appropriate.
Mao: “All political power comes at the point of a gun”
Hillary: Disarm the American people and militarize the police. Better put a few more well armed bodyguards around her too. She’s above the law, same as Mao.
Mish,
I oftentimes agree with you but why should Obama have to provide his birth certificate? Has any other President had to provide one? If, as a nation, we are concerned about screening the nationality of our candidates, they should be qualified equally and papers provided before they can run, not as a reaction to skin color. In fact, there should be a basic standardized test all candidates should pass that requires a basic knowledge of government, if we are serious about screening.
JR
What I said was Trump had an easy way out. I never believed this Birther story from the beginning.
I do not recall ever writing about it until now.
Hillary Clinton’s Sickest Debate Burns 17/26
The Cut
The Cut
Claire Landsbaum
23 hrs ago
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Pause “Clinton on Trump’s tax returns: ‘Maybe he’s not as rich as he says he is'” will play after this ad – 02:10 Volume
Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not represent the views of MSN or Microsoft.
On Monday night, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump took the stage at Hofstra University for the first of three presidential debates. There was shouting. There was negging. There were interruptions that Lester Holt did little to mitigate. But most importantly there were burns, and they were sick.
Clinton kicked things off early on with a nice burn following Trump’s comments about trade deals.
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ABC News ✔ @ABC
.@HillaryClinton to @realDonaldTrump on TPP: “I know you live in your own reality, but that is not the facts.”
6:26 PM – 26 Sep 2016
566 566 Retweets 1,164 1,164 likes
And she followed up with a dig regarding Trump’s refusal to release his tax returns.
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Buzz Featured Inc. @BuzzFeaturedInc
http://BuzzFeatured.com – donald trump, hillary clinton, debate, taxes, presidential debate 2016, federal income taxes, we…
7:10 PM – 26 Sep 2016
5 5 Retweets 4 4 likes
Then Trump made fun of her for being prepared for the debate, which went over super well.
26 Sep
BuzzFeed News ✔ @BuzzFeedNews
Trump: “The African American community has been let down by our politicians. They talk good around election time like right now.” pic.twitter.com/UGLFEcwreT
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BuzzFeed News ✔ @BuzzFeedNews
Clinton: “You know what else I prepared for? I prepared to be president. And I think that’s a good thing.” pic.twitter.com/Ecbi9WH7qd
7:03 PM – 26 Sep 2016
430 430 Retweets 832 832 likes
And when Trump went on a long rant defending his demand President Obama release his birth certificate, Clinton came back with this gem:
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Katy Tur ✔ @KatyTurNBC
Trump: They [african american community] really wanted me to come to that [birther] conclusion. Clinton: Listen to what you just heard.
7:02 PM – 26 Sep 2016
565 565 Retweets 1,077 1,077 likes
Then there was that time Trump finally — finally — brought his point to a conclusion, and Clinton responded like this:
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New York Daily News ✔ @NYDailyNews
All of the laughs #debatenight
7:24 PM – 26 Sep 2016
382 382 Retweets 600 600 likes
Yep, this.
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Dave Itzkoff ✔ @ditzkoff
THE SHOULDER WIGGLE
7:28 PM – 26 Sep 2016
2,550 2,550 Retweets 5,324 5,324 likes
Even when she wasn’t saying a word, she was burning Trump.
View image on TwitterView image on TwitterView image on Twitter
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dani❁ @danibucaro
hillary: looks into the camera like she’s on the office
6:37 PM – 26 Sep 2016
92,966 92,966 Retweets 205,542 205,542 likes
In conclusion:
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SarcasticRover @SarcasticRover
Hillary leaving the debate…
7:44 PM – 26 Sep 2016
467 467 Retweets 1,050 1,050 likes
Melania and Ivanka Trump sit next to Republican vice presidential nominee Pence ahead of the start of the first debate between Republican U.S. presidential nominee Trump and Democratic U.S. presidential nominee Clinton at Hofstra University in Hempstead: Melania and Ivanka Trump sit next to Republican vice presidential nominee Governor Mike Pence ahead of the start.
I was thinking of posting a list of all the lies that pathological lier Hillary has told in her 30+ years in politics (she’s certainly got that kind of “experience”), but there just isn’t enough room here. Those that need to read it (Hi Van) wouldn’t read it anyway.
Trump was in town (Melbourne, FL) today, Mish, 10,000 to 15,000 overflow crowd. Enthusiasm is high. VERY HIGH.
@ CJ
“Van you just totally lost the argument when you reverted to ad hominems.”
I agree. There’s far too much of that on this andmost other blogs.
“Obviously Jason you are a thinking liberal. Since that is an oxymoron you need to reconsider your label.”
What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander?
Hi Mish and Mish’s blog readers. fivethirtyeight.com has what looks to me like the most accurate and up to date measure of who is winning the election. They have details on all swing states which are updated constantly. They run complex simulations which provide the most up to date results in as close to real time as possible. http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ Just before the debate Trump had pushed it to almost a dead heat, it was 51% to 49% in favor of Clinton, and then after the debate it was 55% to 45% in favor of Clinton so from that it appears that Clinton did win the debate.