08 Tuesday Nov 2016
Posted | November 8, 2016 10:11:45 | Economics
A vote for Hillary is a vote for a neocon warmonger who has supported war at every stage in her career. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and US drone policy were all disasters. She is a proven threat to US security and in bed with Wall Street which is precisely why Wall Street supports her.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
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No truer words have been spoken.
Well said Mish. A Vote for Hillary is a vote for exponential corruption.
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.If these politicians find that blatant corruption is not punished
it will be 10 fold worse..
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. Additionally proven The Clinton Foundation is unbelievably corrupt
now Podesta even saying it paid for Chelsea wedding.
These people have zero regard for the US or US Citizens.
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.It is clearly all about the Clintons.
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I can just see you bowing down to Mish, like on Wayne’s World with “I’m not worthy, I’m not worthy”
Mish:
Your blog post today was classic Mish: always on the right side of any issue!
Though we have disagreed on who is going to win today, it is extremely magnanimous of you to ask to Vote Trump even though you have repeatedly said that Hillary will win and have even bet on it. As I have promised you, I will pay you $1000 if Hillary wins. In the same way, I hope you will honor your promise to pay me if Trump wins and becomes President.
I am going to vote Trump today and let’s see what happens.
I am still very confident in the American people that they will choose the right person even though they sometimes veer towards the base and the emotional.
Let’s talk after the Count!
Go Trump!
Slasher
Slasher – I laid off the bet and will win either way, but only small if Trump wins. Instead of sending me $1000 if I win, I propose you donate $1,000 to charity. I will pick a cause for $500 and I will let you pick a cause for $500. You can split if you like. I may pick a couple of causes at $250 each. If I win, I will eat the amount I laid off. If you win, I will send you $1,000 and my sport betting account will show something like $1025.
Mish
Mish:
I will do whatever you say.
Let’s talk again after the Count.
Go Trump!!!
Slasher
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How about you both give the money to wikileaks.
I know that is where I made my contribution this year.
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I am very much against corruption.
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Wikileaks did more to point that out this year than anyone.
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. And Assange has sacrificed personally.
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It is not political – it is anti – corruption.
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Excellent idea.
I second the motion for wikileaks. We would have very little access to the truth without it.
That was quite a daring move on your part, Slasher. If you fall short you can blame Comey and the crooked justice system.
And thank you for being a man of your word. You belong to a rare breed.
Good luck.
OH NO. Another investigation is possible. Both Donald and Hillary, and Obama and DOJ and the FBI have all backtracked on their promises. Why should Slasher and Mish be the only honest ones in the bet?
I have an idea. Let the Clinton Foundation hold all the funds. No way would a non-profit under Bill ever spend the funds on a wedding. Think of it as a charitable contribution for Chelsea’s next vacation. That’s the patriotic spirit according to HRC. I would suggest Trump’s too, but I think the NY AG has suspended his ability to accept funds.
Write in now:
Mish for Pres
Slasher for VP.
At least they seem honest and it is on the Internet that Gore invented.
Cheers gentlemen, you brightened my depressing election day.
If you wish, feel free to make the contribution to my daughters student loans. It will cover about 1/2 of a monthly payment.
Yes, Donald and Hillary. The middle class is doing well.
Slasher – Please shoot me an email
100 of the more recent reasons no one should vote for Hillary: (all documented)
http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/
Unfortunately no fan of the Clintons would want to know that.
And vote out your incumbent Congressman and Senators! Otherwise even if Trump wins nothing will change!
Unless your incumbent congresscritter is anti-establishment, like Rand Paul. Voting out anti-establishment people would be counter productive.
They will all tell you they are anti-establishment. I haven’t seen Rand Paul accomplish any change of significance.
He has, at least, tried. If every congress critter was the equal of Rand, things would not be nearly as dire as they now are. He’s not perfect but, as opposed to most of his colleagues, in some ways preferable to things like civil war and nuclear armageddon.
Perhaps. But everyone will have an excuse to not vote out their incumbent. Which is why positive change never occurs. I say they all go. Baby with the bath water.
Seems like a strategy for non-thinkers, Jon. I’ll agree voting them all out is better than all back in, but nonetheless if you don’t know where your congresscritter really stands, then you are not paying attention. You need only look at how they have voted on legislation, you do not need to trust the rhetoric. I wish ignorant people would not vote at all.
Then, pray tell, why did you vote?
The Democratic Party mantra …………………………………………………………………………………………….
VOTE EARLY, VOTE OFTEN
Why do we have to select either? Both are corrupt and without a moral compass. My grandsons had an election in the kindergarten class, Farmer Brown versus the Duck and the Duck won. I’m following their advice and voting for “The Duck”. If the 85% that say they don’t like either candidate voted for someone other than these awful choices we would, maybe, get someone we could actually support.
I disagree. Obama was supposedly the change guy. It did not happen. I remember when “The Terminator” was seen as the great hope for California politics. It didn’t happen.
This is what Ron Paul said a few days ago :
Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are authoritarians and neither can be expected to roll back the leviathan state that destroys our civil liberties at home while destroying our economy and security with endless wars overseas ”
Yes. Donald intends to cut corporate taxes to 15% and rebuild our depleted military, have Mexico pay for a wall, renegotiate TPP, repeal Obamacare and deliver healthcare for a fraction of the cost during his 4 years in office… and run his hotel empire on the side.
The Terminator tried to reform CA politics. Right away he offered a half dozen ballot initiatives to fix the political abuses. The unions and establishment were all against him and not one of them were passed. With that, Arnold realized he could not count on the intelligence of the electorate and he would have to try to work with the democrat controlled legislature.
The Terminator was a total loser who betrayed the millions of Californians who voted him into office. Just because his proposals got slapped down it was no reason to throw up his arms and side with the enemy (which is exactly what he did). The Terminator chose to go with the power and the money and kick the people to the curb. He pushed for one of the biggest tax increases ever in California.
His final insult to the people happened on the day he left office. The son of his good buddy Fabian Nunez (Democrat Assembly Speaker) was previously convicted on a homicide charge for killing a man in San Diego. He was sentenced to 16 years in prison. The Terminator reduced his sentence to 7 years as he walked out of the governor’s office and the killer ended up serving less than 6 when he was released from jail earlier this year.
Then, of course, we found out that the Terminator had a love child from his house maid that was kept secret until 2011. The kid never knew the identity of his dad until he was 13 years old.
That’s what the Terminator was all about. A great actor.
Realistically, it’s not possible to dramatically change policy and direction on a dime. The Terminator in California had to deal with all the sludge that built up before he got there. An impossible task. An infinitesimal incremental change was all he, or anyone else in California, can hope for.
Re Trump, if he can fire all the neocons and those who see deficit spending and Fed resources as ‘possibilities’ then he will change the world. He will do more to improve the fate of the future world just by that than anything else.
Otherwise, he’ll be captured and controlled by those who tell him he will blow up the world if he changes anything already in motion, like they did to Obama.
Mish,
What’s your sense of today’s election at this early stage? How’s it looking for Trump?
Regards, Francis Manzo
>
I expect Hillary to win unfortunately.
Late-breaking polls mainly seem to be in her favor.
Trump seriously needs New Hampshire or the polls have to be hugely wrong elsewhere.
This election may be over as soon as NH, NC, and FL are announced. If Trump wins all three + Nevada, he wins. If not, he loses.
You’ve been following polls from a more scientific point of view than many. I completely disregard them because of possible intentional bias built into the sample, the appearance of arrogance and personality over method from the poll takers, and the fact most people hang up on crank calls.
Realistically, what’s your opinion on the quality of poll taking today? You’ve actually spent time looking into it and thinking about it.
The Brexit polls were wrong. Trump is as polarizing as Brexit so perhaps the current polls are off as well. We will find out soon enough.
A friend of mine who lives in NV told me Reno & Las Vegas are heavily democrat the rest of the state is heavily repub. The 2 cities have more than half the state’s population. The vote might be close but seems to favor the dems as big cities always do.
I expect Hillary will win. Either way, the GOP loses. Regardless of the outcome or this particular election, the GOP has been irreparably harmed. Any inroads that the GOP had been making with minority voters is shattered, plus they drove young voters and women away as well. As we go forward, the Democratic party will become increasingly dominant.
The best outcome for the Republicans will be if they can hold the house. They will lose the house, too, by 2022 at the latest. Myself, I believe that was Trump’s agenda all along, to destroy the Republican party.
“Hope and Change” 2.0 Good luck.
I wonder which vice-presidential candidate will end up president.
I’m with you Bro. I’ll go one further and say that if Hillary wins, WW III will begin during her administration. If Trump wins, he’ll either die in office or before he gets there.
If Trump wins the Clinton’s political power will come to a screeching halt. The trail of bodies behind Clinton’s will cease when they are wearing orange.
We should not be worried about whether we have Clinton or Trump as President. Obviously
people who are disgusted with the status quo will want change. But it will matter very little.
The bigger problem continues to be the concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people.
The wealthiest 400 people in the USA have wealth equal to 62% of the entire population. The surrogates of those people will control the next 4 years in D.C.
This should be far more disturbing to voters than any of Clinton’s emails.
Donations from Wall St: 96% to Hillary and 4% to Donald.
The biggest crooks recognize and know they are safe with one of their own kind.
I was deeply moved at how Trump treated hecklers and how President Obama treated them. When HC wins, you guys will have to get your Trump fix by watching him on the reality show “The Biggest Loser”
The Clinton’s political power won’t cease until they are pushing up daisies.
If Trump wins, the various Clinton Foundations will cease to exist shortly. Why would anyone donate to one if there’s no favors available to pass out? (Then come the reversal of charitable deductions, retroactive, for all who contributed to the Clinton family. Then comes the forcible removal of the Clintons from the Clinton Foundations. Then comes Chelsea’s tax bill. Then … be still my beating heart … racketeering indictments for the Clinton family and their ilk.)
Hillary’s slogan really ought to be “No Hope, and not even a Hint of Change. At least not for the better.” At the very minimum, Trump is too sloppy to offer a straight up guarantee of the latter.
Trump it is. 👍
Chelsea and Ivanka are probably planning an after election party in the Hamptons together with their hedge fund billionaire friends.
Let’s drain what’s left of the middle class American swamp.
Wrong…Here’s some hedge fund info. No comparison..
Hillary Clinton
Saban Capital Group: $10,036,238
Renaissance Technologies: $9,518,800
Pritzker Group: $7,873,257
Soros Fund Management: $7,873,257
Paloma Partners: $8,108,400
Donald Trump
Argyle Investment: $2,700
Teakwood Capital: $1,500
Tall Ship Capital: $1,000
Vann Investments: $1,000
James River Capital: $1,000
Source: Center for Responsive Politics
I really hope Trump wins.
I voted for Trump today, as did my wife. Straight Republican ticket here in Montana. I am pretty sure Trump would be President at the end of this day if he had not spent his adult life treating women like crap in his public utterances, even though he is married to a lovely woman and has a very intelligent daughter.
You cannot repulse a large percentage of Republican women (even thought Hillary apparently tried to) and hope to win. The numbers don’t work anyway and he started out in a deep hole. The Deep State always wins.
And one final note. If I get one more email from brokers and “advisers” telling me how I need to arrange my investments to profit from the change in “leadership”, I’ll be even more pissed off.
Long Live the Republic.
I just completed my civic duty and voted for Donald Trump.
I also realized that had Trump not won the Republican nomination, I would probably be voting for Hillary. Little Marco, Slow Jeb, Crazy Cruz, and the others are new and creative wars in the box. At least Hillary will probably go no further than completing her destruction of the middle east. The dangerous and nutty Republicans from the 1990s are the reason WJC got away with it. They were a frightening bunch, even from today’s perspective.
…I take it you were less than enthralled with the “Contract With America” crowd. What did the “Ownership Society” do to butter your toast? LOL.
Jeb showed up with a $96M campaign war chest and could not poll better than 5-7% support in the primaries. The voters sent him away.
Now the voters must send Hillary away.
Would it be fair to say that you’re voting for the devil you don’t know then Mish?
I am an Irish citizen and just read the headlines of the Irish Independent… the land of Paddy Power, to some betting folks. Anyway, it looks like they more or less wrote Trump’s obituary. A little presumptuous, methinks.
Thanks for returning to Trump, Mish. He’s our only hope.
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy…”
Alexander Fraser Tytler, Scottish lawyer and writer, 1770
While I hope for the best I expect the worst. We have far too many idiots living and voting in America today. The sad fact is that the freeloaders outnumber the producers. And millions of leeches pour across the border who will eventually vote democrat. The perfect recipe for decline and the eventual fall.
We’ll be very lucky if Hillary doesn’t start WW3 over in Syria. She wants to impose a no-fly zone that would prohibit Russian air defense for Syria, a sovereign nation that officially requested Russia’s assistance to defend their country against the intrusion of outsiders. If the no-fly zone materializes Putin won’t back down. Then the fireworks begins.
America has seen her best days. It was a grand experiment that ran it’s course. I was fortunate to live at a time when America was the envy of the entire globe. Today the majority of the planet hates us. Quite a fall from grace.
The Gary Johnson Kool-Aid wore off of Shedlock, just in time, I’d say.
I know, too. I did vote for Johnson in 2012.
No sooner left the polling place and walked back to my car before I was in regret over it.
Prior to the 2012 election Johnson publicly stated that no crimes were committed on Wall Street that contributed to the 2008 meltdown.
At that point he lost any future support from me.
I think you should go outside, take a walk, breathe in clean air (if available), take a nice drink of clean (not bottled) water, eat an organic carrot and just be thankful to be alive, LFOLDTIMER. It’s all going to be okay.
A friend of mine said “80% of the congress and Senate are up for re-election,” Then followed it up with, “20% approval 92% retention.” Why we re-elect incumbents is absurd. Our politics need a reboot.
We reelect incumbents because most districts are heavily weighted to one or the other political parties, and we are team players and are not going to vote for the other team. Psychology, well understood and easily manipulated.
If you notice most people on this site highly believe that Obama is ruining the country and only Trump (or Clinton) can fix it. But the president has very little power in the USA. Congress is where the action is. The MSM and oligarchy are great at getting people to fight over Trump and Clinton knowing all the time that as long as they control Congress, nothing can change.
Again, humans are easily manipulated critters.
“Congress is where the action is. ”
That is how it is SUPPOSED to be, Jon, but in reality? Hence, the real travesty of the Obama administration.
I don’t know anyone who thinks Hellary will fix the Obama mistake, including her fans. Seems to be more like Obama’s third term with Hellary.
The “For every new war, I will end two old wars” declaration is the most important promise of them all, or was it about regulation?
Bye Mish!
You used to make a lot of sense. But how you can endorse Trump is beyond me.
Go Hillary! Rub Trump’s nose in the pile of crap he crawled out of.
Go Donald! Rub Joe’s nose in the pile of crap he crawled out of. Bad Joe! Bad Joe!
The premise that any change is good, that any change is better than the status quo is wrong. Trump change means less freedom, possibly radically less freedom, and more collectivism, possibly radically more collectivism in America. On Hillary’s worst day, she is more respectful of our constitutional freedoms than Trump on his best. She is a left of center Democrat, with excessively interventionist foreign policy leanings. That’s all. Survivable.
He is a fascist. http://sandefur.typepad.com/freespace/2016/07/for-those-who-doubt-my-claim-that-trumps-a-fascist.html Look at the definition. Apply it to Trump’s actions in business and his words. It fits. Or, if it’s too late do to that, then consider how he and his most passionate champions react to defeat, in the days, and also in the months ahead. In their reaction, again check of the elements of the definition.
Look left, look right, and proceed neither; rather proceed libertarian as closely as possible. That’s Hillary this time. By far. Way by far.
Libertarians and conservatives are so used to looking to the left for threats to liberty that many, including Mish, have been blindsided from the right.
Go Hillary. Then, a loyal, cvil opposition.
My unscientific poll is based upon not seeing any Hillary signs or bumper stickers in the Sarasota area and lots of Trump. Trump wins by silent majority votes of those who don’t do polling like myself. I held my nose and voted for him too. I also found it humourous that there was one lone Hillary supporter at a polling station in Lakewood Ranch standing by the road holding up a Hillary sign with 2 Hillary for Prison signs right next to her. LOL, priceless!
Related tro my post. LOL
I sent in my ballot for Gary Johnson last week.
I am less worried by either Donald or Hillary than I am by what their followers will do when their candidate loses. Each side has demonized the opposing candidate to such a degree that I wonder if we can still have a constructive government after the election. If a big portion of the population refuses to accept the new President as a worthy leader the social contract might fall apart.
Ya, this is actually the result you need if you expect to fix any of this mess.
What social contract? The one that the government has breached over and over again? That one?
Two people I strive to read each day are Mish and Bob McHugh. I would like to post part of McHugh’s comment this morning.
“The world will change today and on Wednesday we will know how it changed. Clinton will move America to be a state within a new Global confederation, while Trump will move America to a stronger nationalist Republic. Clinton will move America toward full-blown socialism, in the direction of totalitarianism, where government supercedes individuality, and personal accountability and initiative are minimized, whereas under Trump, capitalism and individual rights will be recaptured, but also will be an increase in personal responsibility. There is also a wide values divide, and whoever wins, America could be headed for civil war in the coming years, expanding tensions and polarized differences from vial rhetoric to militaristic conflict.”
At what point is socialism full-blown?
After the dictatorship of the proletariat! Clinton is all about the workers owning the means of production.
Mike:
It is a sad day to see you urge a vote for Trump. A pox on both houses. From Real Clear Politics: The Lesser of 2 Evils: Economics of 11/8 – Jeff Harding, Independent Mind: http://anindependentmind.com/2016/10/22/the-lesser-of-two-evils-or-what-to-do-on-election-day/
Hey gentleman, get your heads out of your posteriors. You represent the old dinosaur and the world is moving on without you, unfortunately. Young people want to love whomever they want to, marry whomever they want and care about the food they eat and the water they drink. There really is no turning back…..
Hey guys, the old dinosaurs are dying out. Young people are nothing like you and the tide is turning. They care about clean, safe water to drink and safe food. They also believe in freedom to love whomever they like. They are called “social progressives”
Most people are truly surprised with the characterization of Hillary as a war-monger, and it is unfortunately not a big issue informing people’s votes. Hillary as the end of the rule of law also does not penentrate people’s consciousness.
I swear, I think it is her anatomy that is freaking you all out. That you prefer someone who doesn’t even care about the things he says or does, and at the end of the day is a good friend of Hillary and admires her, shows me that you guys definitely are terrified that your male-dominated, lily white world is coming to an end
Or it could just be the fact that she gave her maid daily access to one of the most classified briefings in the Intelligence Community. Or that she recklessly sent TS data over unsecured lines. Or that she referred to us as deplorables and irredeemables. I could go on ad nauseam.
Occam’s Razor.
Well said Mish
The people of the United States will make America great again!
While I have no vote, I still have vital interest in the outcome, more fore my grandchildren than for myself. It seems that many Americans only see the brash, misogynistic man with a huge ego and only consider this and not what he hopes to do.
I hope the majority choose the right path as while it is only of passing interest to me how the USA fairs in world trade and social areas, it is vital to me that we are not in the fallout from a nuclear war or further embroiled in your useless conventional wars.
GO TRUMP.
I’m telling ya, they are all in bed together. Did you admire Cheney and his policies? Because Pence loves the guy! Don’t tire yourself out, they all are going to have cocktails and expensive meals while their minions tear each other apart. Love is the answer
one of the reasons the establishment continues to reign, is the very fact that so many people believe in their own opinion as having more power than how the system works. spend more time learning how corruption works, and it’s quite easy to see who will win. hope is just another way of saying wishful thinking. trump offers a platform for all who wishfully want to see their own opinion win.
the whole trump card is to give an illusion that your opinion matters, counts. he is the set up to your disappointment tomorrow. plus of course your own fantasies.
fantasies are exactly what tptb want you to have. by golly I’ve heard so much wishful thinking on this thread to wonder how you could put so much faith in your own opinion.and then vote your future away.
that’s ok, keep yakking away how right you are .mish is the only one I am hearing puts his opinion aside to rightly choose who will win.he admits how he feels, and he admits what he THINKs.
I’ve been saying for 2 years out and more, that Hilary will win…not because I want that, but I watch the system. ia m not fooled or used.
expectations wrongly placed create pain. expectation period create much pain.
Early returns now coming in from Indiana, Kentucky & NH. Trump has a good lead in all 3.
http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president
I had a 35 minute wait at the polling place. Voter turn out was pretty good. Everyone was respectful and didn’t discuss any politics. Some people waved across the room to their neighbors and friends. Some people brought their kids. I’m glad to see parents demonstrating to their kids how to be active in a democracy.
Looks as if Trump will win after all, vindicating Mishs’ insight that attitudes fundamentally changed, nullifying forecasts based on historic results.
I’m disappointed, and fear how Trump will govern. But I’m grateful for Mish having caused me to question conventional polling. Such that I am well-positioned for the market turmoil that will follow the generally unexpected outcome.
I hope Trump proves my fears unfounded, and that our institutions and traditions are strong enough to survive him if my worst concerns about him come to pass
What happened to “He can not win” Mish?