European solidarity erupted in a full scale Ideological Civil War in Davos today as Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte called the EU’s dreams a “dangerous romantic fantasy”.
“The whole idea of an ever-closer Europe has gone, it’s buried,” said Dutch premier Mark Rutte, dismissing calls for full political union as a dangerous romantic fantasy.
“The fastest way to dismantle the EU is to continue talking about a step-by-step move towards some sort of superstate,” he said at the World Economic Forum.
His comments went to the heart of a fierce battle under way for control over the EU project, and provoked an impassioned counter-attack from Martin Schulz, the European Parliament’s president.
Mr Schulz called it profoundly misguided to give up the dream of political union and retreat to the nation state. “If it’s Angela Merkel, or Mark Rutte, or whoever else, they must have the courage to say that we need ever-closer union more than ever in the 21st century, and without it the EU has no future,” he said.
“We have some members sitting inside the European Parliament trying to destroy the EU from within. They are drawing EU salaries, and one of them is running for the presidency of France,” he said.
Professor Hans-Werner Muller from Princeton University said the EU was unlikely to disintegrate in any formal sense but there was a real risk that it will instead dissolve from within. “We will still have the Treaties, but they will not be observed,” he said.
He accused Hungary and Poland of acting like rogue states inside the EU, abusing the rule of the law with a “brutality” not seen in democratic Europe since the Second World War. “For them it is even better than Brexit. They get all the money, but they don’t obey the rules. If the EU does not do anything about it, trust is going to break down,” he said.
Italy’s finance minister Carlo Pier Padoan has repeatedly blamed the EU authorities for pushing Italy into a banking crisis that could easily have been avoided. “The problem with Europe, is Europe,” he told Davos earlier this week.
Emma Marcegaglia, head of the pan-EU federation BusinessEurope, told the Telegraph that it sticks in the craw to hear some countries talk about EU rules. Germany has been running a chronic current account surplus of 9pc of GDP in open breach of the EU’s ‘macro-imbalances’ edict, damaging to the cohesion of monetary union. Nothing is ever done.
Why isn’t Germany being punished? We can’t go on like this, it’s not sustainable. Some people say Germany should leave the euro,” she said.
How Much Did Davos Cost?
How much did this summit cost? Perhaps at its end we will have an accounting.
The conference wasn’t entirely useless. It did provide this bit of entertainment.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Carbon footprint? Maybe they can take cruise ships and trains?
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EU – Trump is right, it’s a vehicle for Germany (EU & Euro) and so long as France is protected and the others get handouts it will carry on travelling it’s merry way.
When the handouts stop or the free market gets a look in it might just change, but not end.
As for Schulz, notice he thinks it wrong Le Pen has a seat in the EU Parliament – never mind that she was elected democratically to sit there. Tells you all you need to know.
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Unbelievable: “Europhobes have no right to sit in Parliament and being paid out of our taxes”
You hear this all the time, not just from politicians but from ordinairy Europhiles in the street too. Somehow they seem to think the EU Parliament is only for those that follow the cause. Dissent or discussion is not acceptable.
Note that the press never discusses these comments; they should be educating and and promoting democracy. I have friends (just about) that feel this way too!
Depressing that so many of the general public agree with statements like these.
Extremely infuriating. The sooner the thing goes up the creek so we can rebuild, the better. Pinning my hopes on the Dutch for the next push.
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Davos appears to be considerably more interesting that it sometimes is. The German politicians are coddled by a manipulative press that persuaded the SPD to commit long term political suicide by supporting Merkel’s Christian Democrats. I mean, if they are just an appendage of the CDU, what is the point to their existence. Several of the other European leaders have alternative parties breathing down their necks in hot pursuit.
However, the key problem for the EU is the irresponsible and incompetent German financial and trade policy, and the failure of the EU to enforce its trade balance rules.
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It will never enforce those rules against the paymaster.
Interesting times arrive if German inflation takes off.
Expect Merkel et al to manipulate the numbers and hoodwink her own people to avoid the ECB having to take action to control prices. Rate rise and tapering might be good for the paymaster but imagine the impact on southern Europe. It could rip the Eurozone apart.
Alternatively Germany learns to love inflation and changes it’s character. Might happen.
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One Europe, One Volk.
It is that rigidity of thought, the March to ever closer union, that is so frightening.
There are zealots amongst the EU elite that will stop at nothing to achieve their aims. If you read up on some of them, no matter what political label, they come across as fascist.
Change the labels but until the thinking changes it all remains the same.
It might come from having countries that adopted Fascism, Nazism, Communism or lived under military rule. Rigidity of thought, lack of free thought. March, March, March. Resistance is futile. Let’s beat those that dare to pull away and force all others into the new Reich super-state.
If it’s good for Germany, it’s good for all Europeans.
Everyone forced onto the cattle truck.
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Oh – and they want a world beating single army too. Now, if that’s not to take on external forces (only Russia to consider as strong enough), is it to stop dissent?
Imagine German troops sent to Greece for any reason at all? Or Poland.
How about Poles to Germany or French to Spain?
Only if they don’t carry weapons perhaps.
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Left right, two sides of the same coin nowadays. A look at Spain for an example, but could draw similar pictures of many other countries in EU. The Socialists are traditionally staunch opponents of the right due to the dictatorship, and wear the atrocities suffered by the republican faction as a cause. Nowadays though they act much closer to the socialist nationalists their arch foes the previous fascist dictatorship once associated with. Though the social cause banner they wave is idealistic, in practice they get lower and lower, openly melding with the right when it comes to obtaining power/finance. The previous two leaders ( left/right) both attended the same religious school, and you will remember the Catholic church is pursued for its previous associations in the country.
So you end up with views like this from a frustrated public
http://www.forocoches.com/foro/showthread.php?t=2948411
Or endless corruption and theft of both parties coming to light.
The following link is interesting if you read Spanish. The author uses a 1930s communist at the end to explain his sentiment, but he is republican politically, reaching the conclusion that the only way forward is to destroy the existing national structures completely and refound the country.
http://memoriamalaga.blogspot.nl/2015/10/una-historia-de-los-nazis-en-la-costa.html
As I know the local reality I can vouch that there is a strong underlying sentiment to this effect locally mixed to varying degrees in normal people’s views, as well as a strong nationalism in another part of the population. Cataluña will revive the concepts probably. You said people in the south don’t understand the wider EU equation, and in general you are right, but they do understand its incidence in local politics, and recent EU has no idea what it is messing with in these countries, it only looks to blindly influence all, completely damaging the post war arrangements that were quite workable due to local supervision and contact.
I hope EU ends, it is the worst influence I have observed.
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Soros is convinced Theresa May will go, UK is in denial, Brexit will happen on a Friday but UK rejoins on a Monday. Various aothers of a similar opinion.
Perhaps they are correct but denial can be two ways. The Elite in Davos might be in denial and the game really has changed.
No way to tell what’s real or how people will flim-flam.
How a person, purely on the basis of speculative wealth, can get as many column inches as Soro is an example of what is wrong with the system. Investors and business growers are one thing, Soros another in my book.
A Left Wing speculative capatilist – now there’s a contradiction if every there was one – but the Left queue up to scribble down his every word. Hypocrits.
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There is no telling, but the sentiment people have is heavier than any political trifling. I don’t think they can get this together, but management is behind stage, so they are prepared to keep the show going even if everyone sits there disagreeing… people start leaving and they have a problem though.
Fortunately there is a lot of media nowadays, means not hard to turn away and leave important people to compare inches between each other. The real battles happen in day to day life, and that is where you observe how the defences of the population are working, or where encroachment is occuring. The sociopolitical influence that represents installation of new formats is usually no more than reworked trends of old themes and is designed to distract and excuse more than offer any solutions – the real test is who or what you are faced with at ground level, and what options are available/unavailable as you make your way along.
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As each EU leader falls to nationalistic opponents, the glue will come undone. I predict that before Britain can finalize Brexit, another one or more nations will initiate Article 50.
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The fact that it is the Dutch saying this is very symbolic. The Benelux (Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg) were the seed core of the later EU (+ France, Germany, Italy), as well as NATO. The Dutch economy depends more on trade and communications than any other, and the citizens speak the most languages on average. The Dutch have always supported multilateralist political principles even in the face of the bigger countries trying to monopolize influence. Dutch people have very weak nationalistic feelings and a weakly developed national identity. It is no coincidence that NATO and Brussels have their head office in Belgium (which is 60% Dutch speaking). If even Dutch society sees nothing in moving closer to a political union, no other society in Europe will take the lead as avant garde.
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The Germans have done this. You can see their influence is massive. Few will voice that concern that the system is set-up as a German-French axis.
A real EU super-state would be Germany + satellites. The satellites will only remain if there’s something in it for them (whores) or if too scared to break away (project fear, beatings on leaving etc).
Some peoples are begining to feel stripped of what they hold onto. Becoming strangers in their own place. Anyone offering to give them back that sense of identity is likely to gain votes. It’s not even populism as some are prepared to go without in order to feel they have come out from under the thumb of the EU/Germany.
The EU cannot give people that sense of identity no matter how hard they try. It happens naturally, over time, or it doesn’t happen at all.
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Bickering among those at the global levels lead to economic slowdowns, and eventually wars.
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Can European war exist in the 21st century?
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Napoleon and Hitler had dreams of one Europe. Now Germany has “unified” Europe thanks to fiat money and credit. The Bundesbank alone has more than € 750 bn “invested” in the south.
Germany “owns” several nations through its role as creditor. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, soon France……
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How do you see it ending Lars or continuing as is?
I was in Italy recently and they are keen to see the UK become a disaster.
If you mention German hedgemony they look at you as if mad, they might be right.
We see what we want to see. Some see dillusion & disaster unfolding where others see freedom & opportunity. Who is correct?
What next for Britain, EU, Italy, Spain etc.
How much of the EU is a shared illusion? Can the UK prosper outside?
I don’t know.
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If Bundesbank is willing to continue to lend to local central banks which again lend to local commercial banks which need funding because of capital flight, then this can go on for a while.
Will Weidmann say stop? Or can he say stop without puncturing the Ponzi scheme?
CNBC interwied bankers in Davos and not a single question was about derivatives portfolios.
And regarding QE, in the end Draghi will run out of things to buy, unless he wants to enter the business of buying Italian NPLs.
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Ha lol, Mark Rutte; always talking anti EU but acting pro EU. It’s just lip service to his former voters who are now running towards Geert Wilders…
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Yes, but it also shows Dutch sentiment regarding EU is strong enough to put the politicians on guard.
http://www.politico.eu/article/the-netherlands-mark-rutte-tries-to-keep-a-lid-on-nexit-brexit-eu-jan-roos-geert-wilders/
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That photo makes my hair stand up on end.
I read an Article yesterday stating the new Parliament President Tajani would be worse for the EU cause as a) he is not a socialist and b) he does not have the CHARISMA of Schultz.
Have a look at the photo of that idiot Schultz above, CHARISMA?? seriously? I don’t think so! Creepy Lizard more like (although the Number one prize for that image must go to Draghi) .
Not sure who penned the Article but the same words are used by many: DW Economist, ABC etc. Just Google “EU parliament Schulz charisma”
It would have been good to keep him on to ensure the ship sinks faster.
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As strong as Germany is, they can only handle so much. At some point the refugees, welfare countries, etc… will reach a breaking point. The last two times they broke didn’t turn out so well.
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Are there German people willing to cross the southern border in tanks? Are tanks an anachronism?
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The Germans sold most of their tanks after the cold war ended. Their army has less than 60,000 soldiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army
Right now the German armed forces are so weak that it’s highly questionable if they could succeed in suppressing an internal revolt by the million or so Islamic refugees.
If there are 1,000,000 mostly young, mostly male refugees and they get organized, can 60,000 soldiers stop them?
Even if this number is doubled to 120,000 with reserves, paramilitary police, etc. it’s going to be dicey if the refugees start any kind of serious, sustained civil unrest.
God alone can save them if they let another million potential jihadists into their country.
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“As of 16 December 2016, the German Army has a strength of 59,631 soldiers.[1]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army
The hyperlink for the footnote of [1] gives an update of “Army: 60.303”, or just more than 60,000, as of January 17, 2017.
https://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bwde/start/streitkraefte/grundlagen/staerke/!ut/p/z1/hY7NDoIwEISfxQPXbinx9waaGA0mGIlCL6ZAhWptSa3g41vjzWic285-MxmgkAFVrBM1s0IrJt2d09ExmsRpTKaEpMl8gVebIIr8LSHLvQ-HfwB1b_xDIYZdxSF3HeNfHenWQUCBnlnHHqjVxkpuEStfCyFvmKokT3QZvo010Frq4j09VEUwqYEafuKGG3Q3zm6sbW8zD3uYK9SLi2h5JRjSpvbwt1CjbxayTxbaa9bjYCi7OBw8AbddmpA!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#Z7_B8LTL2922TPCD0IM3BB1Q22TQ0
Apparently German hyperlinks are just as long as German words!
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That’s the trouble with philosophies that depend on welfare – the EU elites are in love with globalism as long as someone else pays for it. Welfare never brings people together, it slowly tears them apart.
Wouldn’t the EU collapse in a matter of days if Trump merely yanked the US out of NATO? Plenty of EU countries are happy to be subservient to the US in regards to NATO, but being subservient to Germany militarily would spark an instant and fierce wave of nationalism. As it is, the US has allowed itself to become subservient to Germany in regards to NATO. The US has no good reason to poke Russia other than Germany’s elites asked us to and our warmongering military sees such a request as a huge budget increase.
Right now Brexit is only a crack in the EU ice – and a few cracks in ice are natural. But if the rate of cracking increases, not only will the EU collapse, but Germany will shatter violently. This is the motivating force behind most of the German elites’ attitudes – they know damn well they cannot support their own welfare system from within and it can only survive by support from without.
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How would a US-less NATO kill the EU.
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None of those welfare states want to kick in an extra dime. Taxes will have to increase, productivity will suffer, and it will set off arguments like “But Greece isn’t paying their fair share.” The nationalism will only intensify.
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Mark Rutte is very pro EU, he’s just saying this because he wants to be re-elected in March and is trying to regain some of Geert Wilders’ voting base by campaigning as an anti EU candidate. I don’t think it will work, because Rutte’s lies have been so blatant and countless that even the usually very forgetting and forgiving voting base now remembers (for example, last election he literally promised to hand out a thousand euro’s to every working citizen – needless to say he never did – and yet he calls Wilders the populist). But if I’m wrong and he does get re-elected, don’t expect him to run an anti EU agenda. He never has and he never will.
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