Trump has said repeatedly that Mexico will pay for the wall. NAFTA discussions with Mexico broke down because of that insistence.
Trump now proposes a 20% Border Tax to Pay for the Wall.
Excuse me for pointing out the obvious president Trump, but that is a tax on US consumers.
White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said Thursday that Donald Trump planned to pay for a border wall with Mexico by convincing Congress to impose a 20 percent border tax on imports from Mexico.
Speaking in a gaggle on Air Force One, Spicer said the administration’s plan to force Mexico to pay for the wall included “using comprehensive tax reform as a means to tax imports from countries that we have a trade deficit from, like Mexico,” according to a pool report.
“If you tax that $50 billion at 20 percent of imports–which is by the way a practice that 160 other countries do–right now our country’s policy is to tax exports and let imports flow freely in, which is ridiculous,” Spicer told reporters, according to the pool report. “By doing that we can do $10 billion a year and easily pay for the wall just through that mechanism alone. That’s really going to provide the funding.”
He said he had been in touch with congressional leadership about the plan, which he said “respected” American taxpayers.
Respect American Consumers
Spicer would not address reporters questions regarding a tax on consumers. “I’m not going to get into it,” said Spicer.
Since the tax is on US consumers, and since bills typically act the opposite of their name (Affordable Care Act being the prime example), I kindly submit the following name for the proposed legislation: Protect the American Consumer Act (PACA).
Related Article: Sparks Fly Over Wall: Mexican President Cancels Meeting With Trump.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Why do none of these politicians ever mention an economic wall? Quit providing cash bonuses to illegals and there is a good chance that they quit showing up. Instead the best answer is to ask Americans to pay inflated prices on imported goods?
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If you make it more lucrative to be “legal” than “illegal”, all you really do is subsidize the army of lobbyists and lawyers who are somehow anointed enough to make the rules that provides for the legal/illegal distinction.
So, just quit providing cash bonuses. Period. Done. Once and for all.
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I don’t care who pays for the wall. We have enough welfare cheats and gang bangers to last us in the USA until the end of time.
And severely penalize employers who use illegals.
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In some countries if you are caught employing nonresidents you can go to jail. As an employer you must get their social security number. If you don’t and you hire an illegal even inadvertently you are probably going to jail or a large fine. This applies even to hiring a Nannie or housekeeper.
When they have no ability to earn an income most will leave.
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what about free healthcare and schooling? they won’t get that in Mexico now.
They won’t leave.
The fence has to be built, and Americans need to be hired to build it.
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I agree-we all know where they work. Go to imperial valley, find out how many workers there are getting paid in cash and are illegal. Then FINE those farm owners 50k a person. Or better, let’s have work visas with a small amount of pay withheld for safety net emergencies. Guest workers. We want them to do these jobs but they should be at least documented as a guest. Then after 10 years of guest status(no criminal records) you can apply for accelerated Greencard and citizenship.
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My respect will go way up for Trump if he introduces a bill to fine businesses who use illegal aliens for workers. That with a stop to giving free services, schooling, welfare etc. would result in a reverse emigration unlike the country has ever seen.
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During the “great recession” the flow across the border effectively stopped if not reversed. They don’t come here for the services, they come here for jobs. Make employers verify citizenship in real time and it will stop.
Do you know what happens to the I9 form you fill out to verify citizenship? The employer has to keep it on file in case they get audited. The federal government never looks at them. That would be a good place to start.
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We don’t need a wall-we need to bust farmers who hire illegals(that pay cash too.) But again, we can just register them as guest workers with a slower process to citizenship. And if you are not a citizen your children do not get a status as US citizen EITHER. Apply for guest worker status and do the required paperwork plus NO CASH PAY
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You want to stop them? Do away with their jobs. How? Force all employers to verify citizenship in real time against a database of social security numbers. If they don’t, jail time for the hiring manager that didn’t check.
Of course the meat packing industry will raise holy hell like they did early in Obama’s term when ICE raided a few of Hormel and Purdue’s plants and shipped 2/3 of their employees back to Latin America.
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Why is everyone assuming that the fence cost to Mexico will be passed on to the American consumer? If that were to happen the American businesses would still get a free ride.
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Better yet, throw a few U.S.-based employers in jail for hiring illegal aliens. That will work a thousand times better than a wall and at much less expense.
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Exactly. It remains the 2,000 lbs elephant in the room that everyone is trying so hard not to notice.
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The plunging mexican peso will make it a wash for us consumers, we might even get some walmart rollbacks from this!
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us consumers are already ahead, there is no bottom for the peso, never was, never will be. Every time Trump fires off a mexican tweet their competitive position improves and the costco produce gets cheaper!
https://www.thestreet.com/story/13969005/1/letting-the-peso-fall-might-be-mexico-s-best-revenge-against-trump.html
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The “tax on consumers” is offset by the savings on the wall. You don’t get something for nothing. Then you save billions more on social spending. Then you save on law enforcment over time. Then you save on social security because none of these border jumpers is going to pay much into it.
But nice try, globalist.
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How do you “save” on social security when millions of contributors to the fund who never, ever were going to receive retirement benefits are no longer able to contribute to the system?
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The SSA will pay earned benefits to contributors even if they were non-citizens and even if they live abroad (i.e., illegal workers who nevertheless did contribute and then leave the US for whatever reason) following the same rules as any other contributor.
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“How do you “save” on social security when millions of contributors to the fund who never, ever were going to receive retirement benefits”
If you are willing to look a step or two ahead, I guarantee you that down the road there will be a Social Justice movement to pay reparations to these poor Mexicans who were cruelly exploited by “Americans”. The actual employers will skate, but our kids will be on the hook to make it up to the mistreated illegals.
If Dems get back into power and pass amnesty, it is also likely that illegals will be granted credit for SS contributions going back to when they first entered the US. Because fairness. The illegals’ contributions will be small, the payouts to them will be large. That’s the nature of low-paid jobs.
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Indeed, as the situation worsens in Central America and the 3d world generally, if the Wall stops just half of these welfare seeking illegals, it will be worth 20x its cost.
Of course, the easiest way to get money is to tax remittances, most countries do it. Our leftist SCOTUS has idiotically ruled that States can’t deny welfare to aliens or even illegals.
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The tax returns to the public in the form of wages paid to workers who build the wall. That is to say it is government economic engineering whereby it sets out national priorities, paid for by consumers importing from abroad in this case, but where the taxed amount may still be used to purchase from outside of the US by those whose hands it ultimately ends up in.
The aim of this project of redirecting part of national economic effort to build a wall is as many have stated, including just above.
Now, you either agree or not with the aim and method, but part of consumption and activity is simply redistributed to others within US.
So do consumers pay for the wall?
As a whole, and assuming the country has slack productive capacity to replace foreign goods , no, but individually if you want to consume from abroad, you do pay. You can go into the advantages of international competition and other incident arguments that may be valid or not, just as the benefits of building a wall are argued, but in reality the project is simply a redefinition of the sphere of US influence and trade , and how it presents those to the world around.
To add further argument:
When you purchase from abroad, you are placing US purchasing power in the hands of people who will use it globally in competition with yourself. Power is obtained by fused organisations, nations or corporations for example, that battle or cooperate internationally. It is naive to think that it is all cooperation, it is naive to think all cooperation is for the sole good of the consuming sheeple too.
I would happily argue out the above to any one who replies to it but frankly have not the time for what would be an endless, and fairly so, discussion.
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If we are to accept Obama’s theorem that ALL spending is stimulative, then why do we care if we pay for the stinking wall, if as you say, that money is going back into the pockets of American workers and not multinational corporations of cronies. Please, someone, what do we have to show for the last ten trillion dollars of debt that this government spent.
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What do we have to show? Transfers of wealth with a cut going to the brokers (politicians).
There is nothing Trump can do to improve the well-being of Americans overall. Those of you hoping for an improvement in your life via Trump are asking others to subsidize you. If you are ok with that, then you’re no different than progressives (well, except they are 10 times more likely to act like complete lunatics in public it seems).
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nice post, Bruno.
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Mike – It seems like you have voter’s remorse. In September you wrote: Logically speaking, Hillary Clinton is the biggest threat to world peace and the most dangerous person on the planet. Only by Trumpian logic does that mean you voted for Trump but is he still the lesser of two evils?
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No voters remorse
Long-time readers know I am an equal party basher
It’s simply easier to find reasons to bash the party in power.
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That’s nonsense. You got on board smearing Clinton with fake news like claiming she was dying from some exotic neurodegenerative disease. Once you’re willing to spread ridiculous lies to get the candidate you want in, you become a clear partisan. You’re worse than just a partisan though because after lying and smearing Clinton during the election, now you want to cowardly pretend like you don’t choose signs. Disgraceful.
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Hillary might very well have some neurodegenerative disease. She presented some very suspicious symptoms while on the campaign trail. Stress tends to exacerbate the symptoms. I’m not convinced that she does not have some underlying illness that hasn’t been made public.
Besides, even if it was fake news it was well deserved after all the fake news lodged against Trump. What goes around comes around.
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tax the money being sent back to Mexico by illegal. Would not cost consumers a nickel
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Easier said than done. As soon as that “tax” went into effect, third party operations would spring up in non-taxed destination countries and the money would be forwarded through them to avoid the tax.
Basically, the same way Americans travel to Cuba.
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not just a tax on consumers but Mexico could retaliate and tax U.S.exports which are almost as large as our imports. Trump weakening current Mexican leadership could result in a new anti-American and hostile Mexican party assuming leadership. High stakes poker and it doesn’t seem well thought out.
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Agree, he most certainly needs to learn to sleep on things before opening his mouth. This need for instantaneously responding to what are complicated multidimensional problems is just begging for trouble.
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“complicated multidimensional problems” is just a euphemism for previous US government incompetence.
Those who want illegal aliens should be 100% responsible for supporting them. Those who don’t shouldn’t pay a cent.
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Yep,
And when your local news, is in your local Albertsons, informing your local citizens, that their tomato prices are up 20%, and it’s all because of your President, I’m sure that will be very beneficial to a long term agenda and maintaining control over all three branches of gov’t.
Like Bush said.. Sometimes ya gotta focus on long term strategerie!
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Equally they will be reading that new agricultural ventures are providing work locally. No gov. is going to be able to micro manage the results of decisions like this.Trump is putting down the pieces in the order of priority he was voted in on. Kudos.
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Certain seasons things grow there that dont grow here… My point is not about micromanaging things 100%, My point is about taking more than 1 hour to think things through.
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Compared to passing unread bills, one hour seems like an eternity.
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There’s nothing wrong with the U.S. allocating more toward border security. What is bad politics is 20% punitive tariffs and this talk of forcing Mexico to pay for it. People want border security. Fine hire more patrols and raise barriers where there are border crossing issues.
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Someone is going to pay for it. He is saying the cost will be on Mexico as the problem is from Mexico. If he reduces trade from Mexico via tariff then Mexico is paying one way or another, irrespective of it also costs the US .
IOW he is stating something like ‘ Sort out the trade/border issues with us or else. ‘
We don’t know if there was a non start to pre-diplomatic negotiations.
Maybe a hard stance on Mexico is already baked in.
Maybe his style of negotiation is going to be remembered by those who would want to waste time.
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Exports are almost as large as our imports?
What IS a $60 billion trade deficit?
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Riddle me this.
You have a country and I have a country.
I produce one thing. Gold. (I don’t like the stuff personally but most here do).
I sell you 1 oz of gold at $1,000 on Jan 1.
Gold goes up to $1,500 by Dec 31st.
At the end of the year, by the standards you think (or don’t think) things through, you had a $1,000 trade deficit to me,.. and obviously are bitchin about your trade deficit to me.
Like I said above. These problems aren’t always as simple as they appear on the surface.
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I think we grasp that you believe yourself exceedingly smart and well informed but if you can’t communicate without insult, simply fuck off.
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Communicate with insult- Generally a sign I like someone.
If you learned something from the example.. think how many times you’ve had people say worse things to you and learned nothing from it.
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Frankly, I’m in favor of import duties on all imported goods and services. It doesn’t do us any good to have cheap imported goods and services, if we don’t have jobs to pay for them. If those imports are more expensive or of a lessor quality than what we would produce, then the incentive will be to produce them here.
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Import duties are a great way to fund the Federal government. Infinitely better than (just as trade distorting) income taxes. But unless we remove the latter, import duties are just another tax on top of what we already have. And that is hardly a good thing.
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Import duties are a good way to fund Federal governments. Infinitely better than (just as trade distorting) income taxes. But unless the latter is first removed, all import duties is, is yet another tax. On top of the too many we already suffer under.
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If I am to pay taxes, I would much rather pay taxes on imported products than domestically produces ones.
JOBS?
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For sure.
In addition, the feds needs to keep some sort of tabs of what crosses the border anyway, so levying taxes on imports doesn’t require a spy-and-rat-out apparatus that is not there in the first place.
Whereas wrt income taxes, there is no reason at all, why people should have to report everything they do to the Federal government, were it not for income (and sales) taxes.
Tariffs and land taxes, are by far the least intrusive (really the only realistic somewhat nonintrusive) taxes available for funding government. The rest are all excuses for pervasive snooping, at great expense, into the lives of citizens that deserve to be treated better.
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“Import duties are a good way to fund Federal governments.” In the 1800s USA with no income tax and small government, worked well. But 1800s have come and gone. In 21st century USA: “Import duties are a good way to provide additional funding for “Super-sized” Federal governments.” Sad reality of 21st century USA is that import taxes, VATs, national sales taxes, tariffs, fees, shared responsibility penalties, whatever euphemism you choose is just an Additional Tax Burden. Recipe for bigger government.
If USA manufacturers are made more profitable and workers gain jobs by taxing the import competition (indirect consumption tax), then the USA manufacturers and workers gaining the Benefits of Protection should both pay Higher Taxes for this government protection (service). That way there is incentive to create new industries that are competitive in the world economy without taxpayer subsidized protection. Otherwise you artificially create a worldwide oversupply of protected industries, with consequences.
So, automobile manufacturers and automobile workers should be taxed at a higher rate than other industries and workers. Just as the Mafia charges “Protection Money,” USA.gov should make manufacturers and workers pay “protection money.” Otherwise, might as well just make it all pay-to-play and election campaign donations, which is how the California Democratic Party does it for favored industries (e.g. TV/movie industry gets a lower tax rate than other industries). Abandon the Free Market, and Corruption reigns supreme.
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Some countries have restricted imports to protect a domestic industry. this can and has resulted in a domestic industry that is less inclined to innovate or make the best product. Japanese cars in the 70’s were a wake-up call to improve the quality and fuel efficiency of American cars. Cadillac is finally targeting the BMW 3-series with its Cadillac ATS. If our domestic industry was more ‘protected’ the might not have improved.
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how good of quality do we need? Good enough to make up for having no job? If I can hire TWO people to do your job for the same total cost, do you think there may be a chance that quality will improve?
We will have to reconcile ourselves to the fact that we cannot have cheap prices for like goods and services if that price advantage comes from replacing us with cheap labor or automation, and still hope to have the means to purchase that product or service.
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Think if we had high tarriffs on computer components (currently 0%), silicon valley would be shit and computers would be old and outdated in all our homes and schools, and the US would suck in tech. Look at every country that has 100% tarriffs on computer components. They have no tech industry to protect.
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China?
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It is only a tax if it is passed on to the consumer and the consumer buys it.
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Even if it costs me a little more for goods screwing with Mexico will be worth it. Turnabout is fair play. We don’t need any more illiterate indigents and more barrios in America. We don’t need any more stinking sanctuary cities either.
I fail to understand how those who ridicule and laugh at Europe for being overrun with illiterate indigents who ruin their culture and welfare systems welcome it in their own country.
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Here’s the document that Mexico hand to to its won citizens. I wonder if they suggest this as terms for early parole from their prison system?
http://www.thepowerhour.com/news/cross_border.htm
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The mexican government has been telling their citizen parasites to head north to America for years with information like you linked. They keep their intelligentsia and send us their garbage while continuing to reproduce like rabbits. Then the US taxpayers are forced to finance their care and social needs.
Trump deserves a standing O for following through on his immigration promises. I can’t wait until he pulls federal funding from the sanctuary cities that defy federal law protect the criminals.
Imagine what the Democrats would do if an American city declared itself a sanctuary city for tax evaders!!! lol.
GO TRUMP GO!!!
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I’m just curious about that, “Even if it costs me a little more for goods screwing with Mexico will be worth it. ” How much extra are you willing to pay to indulge your taste to discriminate against Mexicans?
I’ve always wondered if de facto segregation would have broken down in the Jim Crow south out of rational economic self interest, or whether laws forbidding discrimination by private businesses were and are necessary to desegregate and to maintain desegregation. As a libertarian, I find forcing people to not discriminate problematic, and so I like to believe that the profit motive causes people eventually to choose voluntarily not to discriminate. Unfortunately, I’m not very confident of this. Seems that people just seem to place a very high value on segregation and other forms of tribalism. They’ll pay a little extra for a hotel room if they don’t have to see persons of color around the place. So, again, how much extra are you willing to pay?
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Have to be careful you aren’t discriminating against discriminators and segregating segregationists there.
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I am willing to pay a sizable amount to prevent illegal illiterate indigents from violating our immigration laws and freeloading off our public resources that should be reserved for citizens and legal immigrants.
I approve of discriminating against those who illegally enter our country. They are criminals. They hurt our citizens and they hurt lawful immigrant applicants who want to come to America by delaying their entry due to lack of jobs (which were stolen by illegals).
If Mexico enters into a reciprocal agreement and provide free medical care and education and jobs for Americans who illegally live in their country I would reconsider my position.
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Sounds to me as though Mexico is going to be looking for some new trading partners. Maybe Theresa May should make a little detour to the south on her way home.
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Do the people making these idiotic comments above that realize that Mexico is Texas largest trading partner, trading $200 billion alone with Mexico? This is more than the entire US trades with the UK! Even extreme right wing conservative Governor Greg Abbott realizes this! When we destroy Mexico’s economy we will also be destroying the Teas economy, the most vibrant in the nation and the largest exporting state in the country! So go ahead and shoot yourselves in the foot because that is what you’re doing. Actually shooting yourselves in the head would be more accurate but then that wasn’t a body part that you were using much.
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So we should turn a blind eye to illegal immigration, open our borders and continue with a $60 billion trade deficit so Texas doesn’t have to take a hit?
Sorry. Time to restore rule of law and stop the foreign invasion.
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There are 7.043 billion people not in the US. There are 0.324 billion people in the US. We are 4.2% of the world population. If we share everything we have with the rest of the world, we are all in poverty at the end of the day.
There is 1 US birth every 8 seconds, 1 US death every 11 seconds, and a new non-Caucasian immigrant arrives every 33 seconds for a net growth gain of 1 person every 17 seconds. (http://www.census.gov/popclock/). How long before Caucasians and Afro-Americans are the minority? Will a majority consisting of immigrants from India, China, Africa, Mexico, and Brazil be willing to support retired Caucasians and Afro-Americans until they die?
10% of the US population presently lives in poverty. The US runs a net trade deficit and is dependent on foreign imports for food and manufactured goods and >70% of US jobs are service related and, therefore, a form of wealth redistribution rather than wealth creation. How long before the US runs out of money to buy food and manufactured goods?
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“How long before the US runs out of money to buy food and manufactured goods?”
– Until there’s no producing country willing to accept dollars as payment, probably many decades.
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You’re right. We should continue to spend more every year with every other country in the world that we trade with, while we also absorb their poorest citizens into our already bankrupt social entitlement programs. It is simply great to spend without earning and practice generosity with other people’s nonexistent money, until reality hits, it all gone and we have nothing left with which to build or recover. Or we to continue with our current policies until such time as we are so bankrupt that no one will sell us anything, we have no industry left to produce for ourselves, and people actually start migrating AWAY from America because we have nothing left to give? I live in Texas and will happily take my chances with a little reality NOW, rather than later.
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If Mexico’s economy is destroyed, it is because THEY destroyed it. All we are asking for is parity, something approaching a trade balance. Mexico seems to believe that fairness isn’t fair, that only with them winning on every hand is justice served.
They are WRONG.
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Just another reason for Texas to secede.
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What do you suggest, John?
The concept of sanctuary is actually meant for those fleeing spiritual persecution, not economic blight. Opponents of NAFTA back in the nineties warned that the Mexican agriculture industry would suffer but they were ridiculed and laughed at. The government is extremely corrupt, only now so on both sides of the Rio Grande. Mexico itself exports it’s own jobs in ever more vigorous pursuit of (surprise!) cheap labor.
I’m open to new ideas and find the wall idea dubious in practice but powerful politically.
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Mexico exports its corruption too.
Can you say Bell, Ca?
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selfish much, John?
there are 49 other states and maybe Texas could start producing stuff that they ship to those states instead of Mexico.
ya think?
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If we only imposes tax on Mexican cars but not Canadian cars, it is a tax on Mexico. American consumers can always buy Canadian cars.
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Canada? Aren’t they British or something like that… don’t they have the steering wheels on the wrong side or something?
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And Mexico makes great cars. Designed for 6 passengers on the inside and 8 on the roof.
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For the sake of placating American White Trash we are throwing away our greatness (or what little is left of it).
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The problem is that greatness is in the eye of the beholder.
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Sad to see that Trump is quickly learning how to be a politician.
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Mexico has little to bargain with. They are dependent upon the US much more than we are on them, and if we close their sewer line to America as their means of disposing of their least productive, as well as close the financial transfer of billions of dollars many illegals now send back to Mexico, they will be between the rock of their shitty economic and governmental policies, and the hard place of Trump’s wall.
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Trump knows that it’s going to be incredibly simple to bring Mexico to its knees and cry for mercy. Mexico has no leverage. All hat and no cattle. Trump must have lhao when Nieto-Pena cancelled his visit. As if Trump gave a shit. lol. This experience will transform Mexico into a much more humble nation and teach Nieto-Pena not to write checks with his mouth that his ass can’t cash. There’s a new sheriff in town.
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A withholding tax on Western Union remittances to Mexico is 100% legal and would kill 40% of Mexico’s GDP … plus severely reduce the incentive for illegals to try to invade
Agriculture robots would be an upfront investment (instead of cash-for-clunkers), would give mechanically minded US students a career path, save water, improve crop yield…. and obliterate the demand for illegal workers who currently pick crops.
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Even if we pay 100% for the “wall”, it’s a great investment!!
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Hopefully with non-union labor.
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There is no such thing as free trade anywhere. While Mexicans cross our border try crossing into Mexico and you will see what illegal immigration is all about when it is enforced. Of course most here probably have never been to Mexico.
Of course there are no sanctuary cities in Mexico!!!!
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Well, as I’ve said, if Trump REALLY wanted to stop illegal immigration, all he needs to do is just slightly change the US Code dealing with the illegal hiring of aliens, something which is totally under his control and totally his responsibility as defined within the code itself, the change being to eliminate the giant loophole found within it. So, this is all a show… as usual.
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Put a withholding tax on all the Western Union remittances back to Central America … Remittances from the US are 40% of Mexico’s GDP.
**Legal** immigrants can get the withholding refunded, same deal that US citizens get on our paychecks.
Illegal immigrants will never get the money back. Trump wins. No wall needed
Meanwhile, agriculture robots get deployed on US farms instead of illegal immigrants. US workers get jobs building, maintaining, and programming agriculture robots.
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WHY would we refund taxes on remittance money to ANYONE ? Are you at all familiar with the concept of “velocity of money” (the economy grows as money is spent and re spent) ? Exporting remittances EXPORTS that growth to the remittance destination AT OUR EXPENSE, much like drug addiction and the arms trade (things that blow up cause no further production)
And as to “same deal as on our paychecks”, MORE NONSENSE attempting to equate US taxes with payments to FOREIGN COUNTRIES.
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I said that the minority of cases where the remittances where related to honest taxpaying immigrants — they can get their withholding refunded to them. The implied reality is that those people (who have green cards etc) are paying taxes like the rest of us.
Most of the remittances are from illegals. They won’t be able to get refunds without exposing themselves to deportation and their employers to massive fines… The Treasury will keep the money, and the added cost to illegals will drive more farms into using agriculture robots instead.
Mexico cannot survive without that remittance money; it is 40% of their GDP. Pena Nieto will capitulate because he has no choice. The illegal immigration will dry up, because it will no longer be profitable
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“Put a withholding tax on all the Western Union remittances back to Central America … Remittances from the US are 40% of Mexico’s GDP.”
Wow, so simple! Gee, it’s not like third party services would instantly spring up and have money be sent to Central Europe, or Asia, or Canada, or really anywhere before being forwarded to Mexico, right? I mean, since the problem is so simple, you clearly thought about that, correct?
Simple solutions for simple minds that don’t work (the solutions or minds).
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I didn’t expect a feeble mind like yours to grasp withholding taxes
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Mish has officially lost his mind!!!
Mexico doesn’t produce anything anyone cares about. The “exports” almost all come from European and Asian companies, and they are toyed around with in Mexico for tax and transfer price reasons. So now those companies will use tax avoidance strategies in some other locale.
In between the Trump bashing from Mish, lets also remember that the Panama canal was just widened, making many east coast ports an option for Asian ships. Shipping by water thru Panama is much much cheaper than shipping by train from Mexico, which is still cheaper than shipping by truck from Mexico. Several west coast US ports (not to mention Vancouver Canada) have expanded and automated their cargo container handling abilities, and Warren Buffett recently bought the railway system that moves goods from the west coast.
Mexico overplayed their exports to the US big time.
Meanwhile, without gasoline from the US, Mexico’s economy will shut down and their government will collapse. Without capital and drilling expertise from outside oil companies, Pemex is already unable to maintain crude oil extraction.
…. Mexico is screwed.
With all his $15 minimum wage leads to robots posts, Mish should also be aware that many companies have been working on robots to tend to agriculture crops. The robots are more attentive, apply fertilizer / pesticide / water far more efficiently, and the robots cost about the same as illegal immigrants do now (although they can’t work in the same fields, which has limited their installation).
Mish likes to mention self driving cars (which are still a ways off for cultural, not technology reasons) — he forgets that self driving farm tractors are much more plausible.
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The cost of shutting down the Soros / Obama “free shit” globalism is going to be a nasty short term pull back.
But once the US worker is unleashed, and Washington DC is prevented from attacking Main Street USA … perhaps we will have a REAL economic recovery instead of the fake Bernanke /Yellen debt binge.
GO TRUMP!!!
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You’re an idiot. They make those worms that they put in those little tequila bottles!!!! No one makes those worms better than Mexico.
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Mexico really is truly a piece of shit country. Remove drift diving in Cozumel and I can’t think of anything else good about that place.
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once you go worm, that’s what you’ll yearn !!!
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This robot is made by a German company (Bosch) — but there are US equivalents without the web pages, not to mention companies like GE have toyed with the idea.
https://www.deepfield-robotics.com/
Illegal Mexican agriculture workers will be replaced with robots, just like the $15/hr burger flipping Bernie Sanders types.
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If “Mexico doesn’t produce anything anyone cares about,” then let’s open trade more with it. What harm could come from free trade with a country that doesn’t produce anything anyone cares about? On the other hand, with all the fuss (20%!), the lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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Sorry you can’t read Bobby Hill
Our objective is to keep illegal immigrants out. Maximizing Mexican exports is Mexico’s job (something they haven’t been very good at)
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Actually Fred, if it wasn’t for the Mexicans Mexico would be a great place to live.
Nieto-Pena and his idiot predecessor Vicente Fox talk like Mexico is a 1st world superpower. lol. It’s nothing more than a 3rd world banana republic. I hear both trash talk the US routinely. Their mothers should’ve taught them not to bite the hand that feeds them.
Trump has it figured out. These tin-pot dictators won’t be able to bluff the Trumpster. Before it’s over Mexico will be eating from his hand.
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Wow, you do give Trump a lot of credit. Too bad he will default that too as he has in business multiple times.
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Since Trump’s a billionaire many times over apparently his business successes far outnumber his failures.
So yeah. I do give Trump lots of credit. He’s hard-charger and gets things done. His first 6 days in office should’ve already made that evident to you.
Hillary lost. Get over it.
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@LFOldtimer — “Actually Fred, if it wasn’t for the Mexicans Mexico would be a great place to live.”
True that, but the 3rd world banana socialists have been ruining Mexico for a long long time. Nothing wrong with Mexico the place, but they have had two centuries worth of Obama’s ruining it
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And the irony is that Trump’s policies are going to cause Mexcio to revert to socialist government, to the harm of not just them, but us.
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You are an idiot for believing that is not already the case.
It is not the responsibility of US taxpayers to prop up failed regimes like Mexico (or any other)
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Bankers never let the CPI become more affordable, so imports never did shoppers any good anyway. Shoppers never had CPI deflation no matter how many imports there were. Only bankers gain from imports when there is no gold standard.
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Boo-hoo. Less cheap plastic crap at Walmart. Best thing that could happen to America.
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Trump can pay for the wall with a combination of tolls, taxes, and tariffs.
By tolls he could charge $10 a head to walk into Mexico or to walk from Mexico back to the U.S. Since Mexican citizens cross more than U.S. Citizens would benefit the U.S. and help pay for the maintenance of the wall.
For a bus crossing the border or a car, $10 ahead.
For Trucks, a “weight” fee which would encourage compliance with U.S. safety regs as non-payment could trigger an inspection before turning the truck around requiring proof that all violations were fixed. Again this fee would apply for entry and exit.
Tariffs then could be a last resort.
There could also be regulations on the cross-border transfer of funds by “money orders”.
Together all of these would pay for a wall and the maintenance of the wall.
So Mexico would not DIRECTLY pay for the wall but INDIRECTLY would.
One must remember that Mexico is enhancing its wall on its Southern border.
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” So Mexico would not DIRECTLY pay for the wall but INDIRECTLY would.
One must remember that Mexico is enhancing its wall on its Southern border. ”
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Ironically, the US helps fund Mexico’s southern wall.
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Trump’s bolshevik handlers will not allow such tariffs, tolls, & fees.
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When US exporters pay taxes at the ports of other countries, it’s really a tax on US workers.
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Does the tax include food from Mexico ?
The US gets a lot of produce from Mexico.
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Lots of other Latin American countries would give their eye teeth for a chance to supply produce to the US…
I was in Costa Rica a month ago… and they complained about US agriculture restrictions (they want to sell the US a LOT more). Costa Ricans are a friendly, law abiding, Christian people that are limited in how much they can sell to the US …
Its all nonsense from the US government about being “fair” to the Latin American countries that break US law and make things difficult for US citizens. Government bureaucrats made these decisions behind closed doors — most US citizens don’t even know about the decisions these bureaucrats make in our names.
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Interesting. Democrats are usually ‘Tax and Spend’ while Republicans are usually ‘Borrow and Spend’. But Trump wants to tax the American people for the wall and pretend that Mexico is paying. Is Trump actually a closet Democrat? And if he manages to deport millions of illegal workers, who will build the wall? As far as I can see America already has the lowest unemployment rate since you started keeping records? Maybe robot construction workers?
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Yesterday my wife was at Kaiser’s pharmacy after her appointment with her doctor and she overheard the pharmacist at the next window tell the hispanic patient who didn’t speak a lick of english that his medicine is $1005.00 but you have MediCal so it is free. WTF should I pay for health insurance when POSes like this get everything free?
Drain the swamp? Build the wall? Take down Obamacare? Indict Hillary? Let’s see it happen. All phucking BS rhetoric. This Ahole Trump is not going to do sh!t. He will only do Adelson’s bidding which is to blindly support Israel. WWIII will likely break out in the ME. Netanyahu’s numerous trips to Moscow last year must have succeeded seeing as that Russia seems to have tapered down ops in Syria.
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Here in Texas we pay huge property taxes to fund schools populated by the children of millions of illegal third worlders who have taken over the state so the liberals can educate them to vote Democrat. [Anglos have been the minority in Texas for over a decade.]
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@alan –> “she overheard the pharmacist at the next window tell the hispanic patient who didn’t speak a lick of english that his medicine is $1005.00 but you have MediCal so it is free.”
That’s why California is bankrupt, paying its bills with IOUs — while billionaires make San Fran so expensive that middle class people can’t afford to stay
@alan –> ” WTF should I pay for health insurance when POSes like this get everything free?”
Because your wacko state keeps voting for Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Baxter and Jerry “flower power” Browne.
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Right on the welfare state. Scale it back.
Wrong on immigrants. They are not a problem.
Less welfare. More immigrants.
Brown has been a grade C minus. Not the worst we’ve had by a long shot, wasteful bullet train aside.
And I’m grateful that he’ll protect our immigrants as best he can. Trump has made me reevaluate Democrats. Some don’t look so bad now.
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Perhaps those crossing the border by car and plane should pay a wall tax. At least
he will get it done. We already are losing 60 billion a year so . . . give the guy a chance.
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How are the american consumer earning the money? Buying stuff from Mexico or selling it to others?
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A 20% tariff on imports from Mexico would be paid by Americans. A tax on remittances sent to Mexico by those working in US would be paid by Mexicans.
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” A tax on remittances sent to Mexico by those working in US would be paid by Mexicans.”
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I suspect this is what Trump will do. In fact, I recently heard him refer to this in a speech… but apparently the media didn’t pick up on it.
I am also beginning to suspect that is a Trump tactic… he will say something that sends the liberal media on a wild goose chase… then do something different.
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So they send their money to intermediary services in Europe or Asia before its routed to Mexico.
Annnnnnnnnd your solution doesn’t work, just like that.
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I still hope Trump will fulfill his campaign promise to deport ALL illegal aliens… if he doesn’t he defacto declares the entire USA a sanctuary city.
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In addition to security barriers, we should build an e-wall as an economic barrier. This would provide a means for buying and selling only to verified/legal citizens and far less motive to be here illegally. I understand the down side is potential for abuse of the citizenry by an out-of-control gov’t.
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Trump’s campaign website had a s ction on how MEX would pay for the wall; pretty interesting. Don’t know if it’s still up or not but it had to do with enforcing how transfer of wages earned to Mexican banks from the US.
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I go to Autozone to buy brake pads. I get offered pads made in Mexico by Bendex. Why? Bendex builds plants in Mexico. Why? No EPA. No DOL. No OSHA. They are $15.00. I could buy USA brand, made in Ohio, but they are $20.00. I’m still feeding my unemployed 30 year old boy, who lives in my basement, so I buy the $15.00 ones made in Mexico. Just like the guy in front of me, and behind me.
They guy, Jose, who made the pads in Mexico, along with his sun who works at the plant, both live outside the plant in cardboard shacks. Both are missing finger lost on the machines they use and have lung disease from the chemicals used – – the waste of which is dumped in the town causing birth defects. Half his pay goes to the corrupt cops and government.
THIS JUST IN: Trump gets elected and puts a 25% tax on all goods produced in Mexico.
I go to the Autozone to get new brake pads. The Mexican pads are $20 and the USA pads are $20. I buy the $20 USA pads, because my boy works at the new Bendix plant. Since my boy is working, I have a few extra $$. I send a few to my two favorite charity: The Mexico and Chinese people’s revolution fund.
Who pays the tax??
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very bad analysis
For starters you and everyone else paid $5 more
OK – your son got a job – How many other did vs. how many paid $5 more?
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Who is paying the tax? The importers I assume. The importers buy the goods in Mexico and then pay the tax bringing their bought goods across the border. So that would mean it’s not the Mexicans paying the tax. Instead it would be Coronas distributors, General Motors, etc,,, ,
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Better yet, why not levy a tax on all US. domestic bank transfers of money/funds to Mexico to fund the wall? At five percent on thirty billion a year, that works out to 1.5 billion to pay off the wall in ten years. That way you get the white Mexican ruling class to chip in as well as the illegals hanging out in the US sending money home. It’s a win win, and democrats love taxes on just about anything. Extend it to all countries to fund internal immigration enforcement of visa overstays.
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Dear Mish, As a libertarian that believes in free everything, I must remind you that “free trade” is NOT free. As long as we have income taxes, we are salves and NOT free.
Tax on imports built America from 13 colonies in early 1800’s to a great Union in early 20th Century with NO Income tax (except for a few years during Lincoln’s War of Aggression).
I would much rather have a tax on imports that can be avoided and bring higher paying jobs back into USA than an income/slavery tax that there is no avoiding.
Let’s get back to Thomas Jefferson days of NO INCOME by having import taxes instead. here is speech by libertarian G. Edward Griffin, the author of the Creature from Jeckyl Island on “The Perfect Tax.”
20% tax on imports from Mexico is a great start to rid us of the Income Tax Slave System.
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I’m with you but government won’t give up the income tax.
It’s too good of a control mechanism.
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“Let’s get back to Thomas Jefferson days of NO INCOME by having import taxes instead. here is speech by libertarian G. Edward Griffin, the author of the Creature from Jeckyl Island on “The Perfect Tax.”
Sure, and let’s implement Jefferson’s idea of a 100% estate tax while we’re at it. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?
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Please check US Census data.
Cumulative Trade deficit with Mexico since 1985 is just over $ 1 Trillion
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Higher prices on import goods is a fair cost for retaining and seeing jobs return to America. Several economists have come out recently pointing out that the first thing to suffer from Trump’s economic policy will be low prices at Walmart.
The truth is we should call a spade a spade and question how much we really gain when we find Americans can no longer get good paying jobs because they have been exchanged to other countries in order to lower the price of goods we buy. The article below explores how this is akin to a deal with the devil and over time it has hollowed out our middle class.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2017/01/higher-prices-on-import-goods-fair-cost.html
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Higher prices on import goods is a fair cost for retaining and seeing jobs return to America.
It’s idiotic
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