Six days ago Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan likened Germany’s cancellation of public appearances by two of his ministers to Nazi practices.
For details, see Erdogan Accuses Germany of Nazi Practices Over Canceled Appearances: When Will the Migration Agreement Blow Up?
Today, Turkey’s Erdogan Calls Dutch `Fascists’ After Minister Grounded.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the Dutch were “fascists” after the government of the Netherlands blocked his foreign minister from attending a political rally in the country out of fear of public disorder.
In response, Turkey closed off access to the Dutch diplomatic posts in Ankara and Istanbul, citing security reasons.
“These are cowards, remnants of Nazis, these are fascists,” Erdogan said Saturday at a televised rally in Istanbul. “Let’s see how your planes will come to Turkey. I mean here diplomatic planes, not the travel of normal citizens.”
The Turkish foreign ministry said in a statement that it asked the Dutch ambassador to Ankara not to return to Turkey “for a while.”
When Will Migration Agreement Blow Up?
It’s a given, at least in my book, that Turkey has no future in the EU. But Merkel cannot come out and say that until after the German election on September 24.
I suspect Erdogan may unleash another wave of migrants this summer unless Germany gives into his demands. Summer is the perfect time to disrupt the German election.
Related Articles
- January 22, 2017: Erdogan Seeks Powers to Stay in Office Until 2029: Expect Perpetual State of Emergency
- November 10, 2016: Erdogan Lashes Out at EU, Threatens to “Open the Gates” for Refugees
- July 20, 2016: Erdogan Scorecard: 50,000 Detained or Fired Generals, Judges, Teachers, Police, Others
- May 30, 2016: Erdogan Says “Contraception is Treason, Women Not Equal to Men, Muslims Must Multiply Descendants”
- April 20, 2016: EU’s Refugee Dilemma: “Growing Panic” on How to Change Terms of Deal with Devil
- March 7, 2016: Devil Demands and Receives More Concessions from Merkel: In Bed with a Dictator
Those posts show exactly who Merkel got into bed with. She cannot admit mistake her now. And given her blatant stubbornness in general, I do not know if she will ever admit a mistake.
Meanwhile, Erdogan is growing increasingly agitated.
My July 16, 2016 question is still unanswered: Dear chancellor Merkel: When does Turkey join the EU? When do 80 million Turks have visa-free travel?
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Assuming the French or Italian elections (and/or the official Brexit) doesn’t end the EU, it is highly unlikely the EU will survive Germany’s elections. Maybe it will still exist on paper, but as a functioning entity?
As things stand now, can the EU enforce the Maastricht Treaty? Can they enforce trade sanctions against Russia? (the former head of Total was killed in Russia, a few months before all the major oil companies had a meeting in St Petersburg). Can the EU enforce their ridiculous demand for the UK to pay EUR60 billion to leave?
This year, three “anchor country” elections are all predicted to go against the EU. If the EU loses any of them, it is done for good.
If you were the leader of Turkey’s government, you would be distancing yourself too. Forward as many bad immigrants to Europe as you can — Turkey has plenty of domestic problems without taking on US/Europe’s middle east mistakes.
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Why? Because she would be replaced by Martin Schulz, who is even more pro-EU and wants even more third-world immigrants to flood Europe?
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Unless Martin Schulz has trillions of Euros hidden in his coat, he is irrelevant.
Merkel doesn’t have the financial resources to bail out the rest of Europe, and neither does her replacement (whomever it turns out to be)
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Sure, but you wrote that EU will not survive Germany’s elections. This has nothing to do with the elections.
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I doubt the EU will survive (except on paper) UNTIL the German elections, never mind through those elections. I further contend the EU is already bordering on irrelevant already (tell me which EU treaty you think the EU itself is obeying in your answer).
To maintain its lame duck status, the EU must win all three elections (France, Italy and Germany). For the EU to collapse, any one of those elections has to go against Brussels — and right now its looking like all three might go against. Merkel is no longer a sure thing, and the other two are leaning heavily against Brussels.
If you want to argue the EU will still exist on paper (but will cease to effect anything in the real world) — have at it. Who cares?
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Right now, I can write a new EU “law” and decree that everyone in Europe must obey my new law.
How many people will obey my law? The same number that will obey new laws from Brussels.
If you want to argue that my pretend government still exists on paper, I would counter that it does, but no one cares. Same for Brussels.
Its starting to look like Netherlands might leave the EU also — not sure how (logistically) they leave without Germany, but it Netherlands might be a serious warning light for the folks in Berlin.
France looks like Le Penn might win. She will certainly be part of a ruling coalition. And she already announced there will be a new French Franc (so long ECB!!!)
Germany doesn’t have the money to keep the EU going, to pay for illegal immigration. And they won’t tolerate crime and lawlessness. This is true regardless of who wins in September
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You really like to listen to yourself, Medex Man, don’t you?
All relevant candidates in the German elections are rabidly pro-EU.
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Just because you personally don’t favor the anti-EU candidates doesn’t mean they won’t be part of whatever ruling coalition.
You are just like the liberal thugs in the USA — anyone who doesn’t accept your viewpoint is dismissed as outside the mainstream. That is why you were surprised by Brexit and Trump — your closed group just listened to each other and not the population as a whole
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You are a moron imagining stuff.
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The German people have been given NO CHOICE at the elections. No alternative outcome except being tied to the existing structure. Indeed, any alternative would result in higher currency, reduced exports.
It’s a pact, it will continue to the ultimate goal of single EU governance with much reduced representation of the individual.
Some new “ism”.
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Higher currency would be good for them.
They have real estate bubbles because the currency is too cheap.
I want Erdogan to do trade sanctions (or whatever) against the Dutch.
Because the rest of Europe will be forced to side with the Dutch against the Turkey or lose face.
Even an isolated PVV would force the other parties to form a coalition and show up their real colors as closet socialists.
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Correct.
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Turkish goverment (Erdogan) is a good Hitler apprentice (he has Learned very well) and is turned to the Dark Side
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Erdogan doesn’t unleash migrants, he doesn’t have to. Though he poses ‘as if’, in the sense of if he does not coordinate with regard, in reality all he has to ‘not do’ is crackbdown on trafficking. It was only after the ‘promise’ of visa travel that he ordered a crackdown, but he has absolutely no obligation to restrain migrants, nor blame to take for not restraining migrants. I don’t say that his decisions are not a bargaining chip, just that migrants are not his to unleash.
On the other hand, what seems to be being exerted on European countries purposefully is the leverage of rousing the existing resident Arab/Turkish population in those countries. This is where he crosses a line, a bit like if Germans started to organize German rallies in Turkey against the will of the Turkish government. That is to say Turkey is now exerting its presence in European countries, as well as insulting them.
So the question for me is more if there is going to be an ethnic confrontation in Europe, more than if more migrants enter.
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Erdogan may not be able to stop all the middle eastern immgrants to Europe, but he is definitely able to push more of them through Turkey — LOTS more.
Europe is clearly not his ally; at least circumstantial evidence points to Europe promoting the coup against him. He has nothing to lose sticking his middle finger up at Europe; Merkel and Juncker have everything to lose.
Regardless of one’s personal feelings about Erdogan (is there such a thing as a “nice” political leader?) … the man is going to act in his own best interest first, Turkey’s second, and Europe can stuff it. Life isn’t always fair — and that applies to Europe’s citizens just as much as Turkey’s citizens.
Erdogan is trying to extort some money out of Germany while there is still an idiot at the Reichstad. Who knows if Merkel will still be able to write Erdogan a fat check after September? Doubt it.
Instead of looking at Erdogan through kindergartners eyes (whether he is a monster or whatever media crap) — let’s look at him as a politician trying to maximize his lot in a bad situation. Forget his words, look at his actions.
His actions make perfect sense looked at from this angle.
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Sure, but I find here that to blame the other is a way of denying own responsibilities. Erdogan does as he wishes in Turkey, and it is a matter of debate whether he is uncooperable or whether he is being handled by the west in the way that you describe him. Point is that we don’t need that argument as a distraction from the choices western countries have made regarding migrants, regarding Syria. For all I know every evening Merkel and Erdogan sit down and chat on what show to put on tomorrow.
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Seems like all the unreasonable politicians now right away call call the other side “nazis” or “Hitler”. It’s getting ridiculous and takes away from the horror that was Hitler’s nazi regime.
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Plenty of fascists in the world besides Nazis. Perhaps the constant victimhood and demands for reparations made other victim groups want their own compensation?
Before you start on *THE* holocaust singular, do explain why you think many other gencides like the camere rouge killing fields in Cambodia don’t count? Ethnic cleansing happens in Serbia, but also happening (present tense) in Ethiopia and Somalia. That’s two recent examples (and not an exhaustive list), plus history books are filled with many more.
The fascism that rammed Obamacare down every US citizens throats (San Francisco does not speak for the whole country) made us all fed up with the constant crap out of big government. We all saw the fascists in Congress exempt themselves (before Obama threw Israel under the bus, and before Soros started sponsoring political violence in the US).
If you really oppose fascism, not just as a way to extract reparations but if you really oppose it, than you would also be against the EU and against Obamacare and against big government deciding every little aspect of everyone’s lives… Too many in the Jewish community instead tried to have it both ways.
Erdogan is just a politician trying to extort money out of Merkel before she is voted out (a strong possibility now) or rendered impotent in a divided coalition (also likely). Merkel is a big government loser offering Erdogan a big check written against someone else’s bank account (not her own).
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Apparently my lengthy reply got stuck in moderation, so let me just say this short version:
Hitler was freely elected (at least at first), the EU bureaucrats were not.
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Not exactly “freely”, Medex. Years after the event, Goring admitted that he had the Reichstag burned in 1933 to put Hitler in power. Once Hitler was in power, there was no going back.
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You are completely missing the bigger point — the EU was not elected at all. Not even by a rigged election.
PS — your understanding of that period in German history is both clouded and incomplete. Hitler had already been FREELY elected Chancellor before the fire (he had the most votes within the ruling coalition, even though no single party had a majority) — the fire (whomever set it) allowed him to blame coalition partners and consolidate power.
http://www.dw.com/en/fact-or-fiction-adolf-hitler-won-an-election-in-1932/a-18680673
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-becomes-president-of-germany
If you really want to stop that disaster from happening again, you first have to understand what actually happened — not the edited versions
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I do know all that, medex. I saw you no reason to have to explain all that to you. I don’t like long useless posts. You assume because I do not mention something that I don’t know it? Ridiculous; I’ll challenge you to a knowledge of history contest anytime.
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He was NOT elected. He was appointed by von Hindenburg on the idea that they would rather have him inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. They thought they could control him. Events proved otherwise.
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1. Goring said no such thing. He was actually nearly incinerated in the blaze.
2. No historian today thinks anyone started the fire except Van der Lubbe.
3.The Nazis had already been elected via a coalition.
4. Comparisons with pre-war German political events are always utterly fatuous. Particularly when made by politicians.
5. Nexit will never happen. The Dutch public isn’t remotely euro-sceptic. In fact, I see no appetite for leaving the EU anywhere across the region. Certainly not in any of the non-Visegrad nations. The only people who seem to think that the EU population is in some sort of insurrection against Brussels are Brits and Americans. Such a scenario, if it exists at all, is simply years away. It would require the simultaneous breakup of NATO.
6. Turkey under Erdogan will keep exploiting the EU mess for domestic advantage, simply because he can. Like the smart money, he will continue to look eastwards.
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” …the simultaneous breakup of NATO.”
Already happening. Check that one off your list…
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Nah… the insurrection is EU against the population, who no matter how they vote ( when allowed) either get ignored or have their choices reduced to corrupt europhiles. Eventually a choice will stick, but in the meantime I think Europeans are being very civil – too civil by Anglo standards…. we like to speak our minds, and even that speech was silenced before Brexit.
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( And the British are generally very civil, so figure what ‘too civil’ means)
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The EU has some of the characteristics of burgeoning NEW Totalitarianism. It will reduce all states to faceless, characterless geographies under one central rule.
Many lessons have been learnt from the Fascists, Nazis and Communists and distilled into something new and sneaky that grinds slowly so the masses won’t recognise the outcome until too late.
Some of it is benign but certainly not all by a long stretch.
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Countries used to have armies and navies to enforce their borders.
And they used to arrest those illegally in their country, strip them of their assets and depart them…
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…. then one day some bureaucrat mixed up the drawers labelled ‘entitlements’.
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“It’s a given, at least in my book, that Turkey has no future in the EU” -Mish
You got that right. France has always blocked Turkey’s entrance into EU, and will never relent. Turkey is better off keeping its sovereignty and religious freedom. Why Turkey would want to join EU just in time to bailout EU central banks and deadbeat states is beyond my understanding. Being part of EU also means being controlled by USA and adhering to trade boycott against Russia. Brexit will soon allow Turkey to do a deal directly with UK. Freedom and sovereignty, best for both UK and Turkey.
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Potential “mutual benefits” of the controversy, a view from inside Turkey:
http://aa.com.tr/en/analysis-news/europe-rejects-its-own-values/767669
Although this may seem like a paradox, such prohibitions might actually have a positive effect on increasing the “yes” votes in Europe since in Turkish politics attempts at oppressing and victimizing a political party have always been known to benefit the very party being victimized…What’s more, Turkish TV networks and the political agenda of Turkey may even be more popular with the Turks in the Netherlands and the greater Europe than they are in Turkey…There is almost no country in Europe that does not use Turkey and Erdogan as a political leverage tool to win the ongoing campaigns in their countries. The actions and rhetoric against Turkey and Erdogan have become means of gaining votes in the present campaigns marked by the increasing influence of the far-right. Negative news, comments, columns and books on Erdogan have even become a very profitable business…Therefore, the decision to ban Turkish authorities from staging rallies in the Netherlands might be related to the country’s own election campaign…
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Well, we might not have to wait long. On Wednesday it might be that Holland votes wrong…Geert Wilders might the next PM
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What do you mean, “votes wrong”?
How about if they have been “represented wrong” in the past?
Don’t blame the electorate, blame those in charge. Trump is a response to Obama, Brexit to Major/Blair/Brown/Clegg/Cameron.
Wilders would be a reaction to whatever went before that didn’t represent the Dutch people as they wished.
Politicians always blame someone else, usually the electorate.
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Wrong according to the EU elite. They seem to regard democratic voting process as a mere annoyance…
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Thanks, understood now.
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Opponents of the EU should appreciate what Erdogan is doing – causing more division and making French, Dutch, Italian and German voters angry at the EU’s welcome mat.
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Everyone in the EU thinks “the other guy” is going to pay all the bills and suffer all the consequences… no one in the EU wants to be “the other guy”.
The EU is built on a ridiculous fantasy (free money falling from the sky) and run by unelected bureaucrats (fraudulently babbling about democracy). Opponents (Erdogan or otherwise) can’t do more damage to the EU than the EU does to themselves
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End the Middle East war now, bring all the troops home close all our military bases . The fire the fed. But before one last meeting. Make sure it’s infront of a firing squad.
Then declare their onerous debt illegal and don’t pay a dime.. get them to accept it sign it then shoot them all. Continue draining the swamp. Fire all employees who worked for Obummer Bush Clinton Bush1, Reagan carter Nixon, and Johnson and any that didn’t support Kennedy. Then put the troops to work guarding our border, rebuilding roads bridges everything. Rebuild the railroads, power plants, airports waterways communication systems burning all machinery and things that might repeat the Feds of the CIA, FBI and all other deepstate organizations. Take health care away from all government employees. Make tenure and all unions illegal. Take of the Indians Ist with an Apology then give everyone basic health care and all necessary innoculations for life, make marijuana legal but not cocain or heroin. Imprisonall the Clintons and Bushes all the world leaders who are part of the deep state and continually stet and maintain wars all over the world. Make gold and silver that which backs all currency’s immediately. Feed all the world Starving Children and immunize everyone from all known deadly diseases. Then ask evryone to get down n their collective knees and pray for gods blessings. Thank the lord Jesus for showing us how to live and teaching us how to pray . And thank gud for Donald Trump who gave us courage to stand up to Obummer and Clinton’s and their CIA
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The EU will use trade as a tool/lever/weapon – the stick.
Money – the carrot.
Turkey is very dependent on exports to the EU and tourism.
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IF Turkey does not behave responsibly there MUST be a MASS-BOYCOTT of all Turkey manufactured products and all Turkey vacations.
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Turkey has been a beneficiary of the Euro since many people who would have gone to Spain, Italy and Greece and Portugal for beach holiday have chosen Turkey because it is much cheaper than Greece, Italy and Spain and Portugal which all have had euro caused inflation and made themselves less competitive in tourism.
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If you holiday in Turkey you financially support Erdogans oppression of kurds and you also support Erdogan’s war on free speech and Erdogan’s islamization of Turkey and destruction of womens rights.
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I don’t believe the EU lasts long enough to threaten Erdogan, but just to humor your scenario…
Lets say the drunk guy in Brussels (which one?) decrees that Europeans shall not holiday in Turkey. Not sure why anyone would listen or care, but just to humor the idea…
Suddenly Erdogan shifts money out of the Turkish tourism board into train rides to ship Syrians, Iraqis, and what-not into Europe. Not sure he can stop illegal immigration, but he can easily speed the trip into Europe.
Europe quickly fills with “tourists” of a different stripe, and nation states close up their borders in defiance of irrelevant Brussels.
I suspect this outcome is going to happen anyway, but a sudden rush of refugees / illegal immigrants / criminals (they all ride the same trains) will silence Brussels very quickly.
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IF there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY from NO-welfare Greece to welfare paying Europe starting at Austria then only very few and stupid come to Greece.
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The rush of 2015 and early 2016 was caused by Greece stopping detention and Greece stopping border control and Greece stopping registering of asylum seekers and Greece just pushed everyone towards the north by giving ship rides to mainland Greece from the greek islands near Turkey and even giving bus rides to the Macedonian border from Athens.
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Macedonia, Serbia just pushed people north because Angela Merkel called Hungary and hungarians every name in the book when Hungary tried stopping the rush of millions of “asylum seekers” who are really welfareseekers from passing through Hungary to welfare paying Europe (Hungary is NOT part of welfare paying Europe).
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When Hungary completed their border-fences the rush started going through Croatia (NO-welfare) and Slovenia (NO-welfare) and Angela Merkel was demanding that Austria needs to keep their borders open and accept asylum seekers who decide to stay in Austrian welfare and give the rest a path to Germany.
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Austria finally said enough of this and stated that their borders would be closed but they would accept a limited amount of 80 asylum applications per day on their border and since this would have meant that all the millions would start bottling up in Slovenia government of Slovenia declared that their borders were closed but the would accept 50 asylum applications per MONTH on the border from especially vulnerable people.
Within 24 hours Croatia, Serbia and Macedonia had closed their borders completely because they did NOT want to end up hosting hundreds of thousands or millions of welfareseekers LURED to come by German welfare, Swedish welfare and 100% acceptance in Germany and Sweden for syrians as a POLITICAL CHOICE and INCOMPETENT 70%-90% acceptance for many other nationalities thanks to incompetent asylum bureaucrats and EASO.
If one ended up as the bottleneck for people coming LURED by welfare and Angela Merkel’s repeated invitations then those people would act out like they did in Greece after Macedonia SHUT it’s borders and finally CLOSED the balkan route.
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The deal with Turkey by Merkel was a way for Merkel to HIDE the fact that SHE was and is RESPONSIBLE for all the drownings between Turkey and Greece, all the rapes committed by welfare seeking asylum seekers around Europe and all the millions who came and are now unemployed with no skills to find employment and no knowledge of local culture or local language BECAUSE they came through open borders that Merkel DEMANDED must be kept open and they were LURED to come by german welfare money and free apartment and high acceptance rates for even FAKE asylum claims with stories full of lies that the asylum bureaucrats are not even trying to catch thanks to EASO-modules and EASO-trainings total incompetence.
Merkel repeated statements that “there is NO LIMIT how many asylum seekers Germany takes” should have led to german parliament declaring her UNFIT to govern and vote of NO CONFIDENCE and she should have been sent to get treatment for her political hallucinations.
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IF there is NO WAY from Greece to welfare paying Europe NOBODY WILL COME.
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The only way from Greece to welfare paying Europe now is the INSANE burden sharing system for 160,000 asylum seekers to be spread around Europe by EU from Greece and Italy that Merkel and Juncker RAMMED through in two phases during 2015.
Since most countries have not implemented that there are still 140,000 places available and this burden sharing should be CANCELLED.
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The permanent burden sharing system EU-commission presented in May 2016 would be total and utter destruction of Europe since in that draft after one country reaches 150% of their quota (decided by EU) all asylum seekers arriving after that are to be spread around and this would mean Greece and Italy would reach 150% in 1-2 months and after that EVERYONE would have GUARANTEED way from Greece and Italy to be spread around Europe with most getting to welfre paying countries.
This would LURE 10-30 million people to come in 1 year meaning the nightmare of 2015 would be seen as a slow year.
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The whole EU-commission is totally incompetent when it comes to migration issues and asylum issues so they must be incompetent in everything else too.
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They seem too incompetent for it to be incompetence.
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First countries will leave EU, then they will start ejecting Muslims. They will throw out illegals then the environment will slowly turn hostile to others through laws, social acceptance etc., and they will emigrate. Not possible you say. Spain did it with Jews and Muslims quite efficiently a few hundred years ago. History often has a nasty habit of repeating itself.
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So Erdogan stuck to his par of the deal, even though the refugees are not really Turkey’s responsibility, yet Turkey neither received the money nor visa-free access it was promised. Yet somehow, Erdogan is in the wrong here. Amazing really
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Turkey has been supporting ISIS for years by buying oil from ISIS, allowing western muslims to go to Syria through Turkey to join ISIS and shipping arms sent by CIA (some in the CIA are guilty of GENOCIDE because of the guns provided to ISIS thru FSA (Free Syrian Army) that were used to commit GENOCIDE against yazidis, christians and alawite-shia-muslims in Syria by sunni-ISIS) through Turkey to ISIS.
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EVERYONE in CIA that was involved in sending arms to ISIS should be sentenced for treason and for supporting GENOCIDE.
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Whatever Turkey may have done, it was all under the auspices of the West, so if Turkey is to blame for the refugee crisis then the West is also to blame. Hence, you cannot really ask the Turks to carry the burden of the refugees for free and blame them if they refuse to do so.
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Water cannon being used this weekend on Turkish protestors in the Netherlands.
Enjoy!
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ab_1489315025
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On top of this, the Rabobank is seeing an economic slowdown (again) after 2018. It writes the new cabinet will have to keep on reforming, most of the time this means higher taxes. People will have to bring more offers, I wonder when things will fall apart here.
“The Dutch economy will prosper in the short term with GDP growth of 2 per cent or more in 2017 and 2018 (see ‘Economic Update’ chapter). However economic growth in the Netherlands is likely to be significantly lower in the longer term, after 2018.”
https://economics.rabobank.com/publications/2017/march/new-cabinet-needs-to-continue-with-reforms/
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To the person whose lengthy and mostly nonsensical comment that I deleted, I am not backing away from anything. My essential idea mentioned many, many times over the years was long-haul trucking would vanish first, and for some time there may be a driver needed to take the truck to its final location.
Should it play out this way, over 90% of the miles will be totally driverless.
I suspect I am overly pessimistic given self-driving taxis will be available by 2022 (but perhaps not widespread).
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Bummer, man, about all the rapes and stuff. Man, the girls couldn’t escape ’cause that self driving taxi wouldn’t run over the rioting rape gangs, man. Bummer. Hey Gert, quit Bogarting that joint man! Pass it over to Omar before he self detonates.
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I never thought of that problematical situation with self driving cars before. Another reason to drive it yourself. Good point, don q.
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I wonder how long Turkey will remain a member of NATO before being kicked out?
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According to this article Merkel wants 12 million wanderers to Germany by 2060
https://www.wochenblick.at/merkel-hofft-auf-12-millionen-einwanderer/
But more interestingly she has supposedly promised to Erdogan that Europe will take up to 250000 ref…er…whatever…to Europe…she really thinks Germany is EU. This is treason. Nobody has ever promised or agreed to this…
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article162778752/Merkel-machte-Tuerkei-konkrete-Zusage-bei-Fluechtlingszahl.html
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Up to 250000 per year I was supposed to write. That is awesome number. She goes around making non-official promises to nations that are not part of EU and behind other member states backs. I see no good coming from this.
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Erdagon is a paranoid lunatic and that ticking timebomb has an expiration date unknown to anyone, even Erdagon, imo.
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