Polls show close to 40% of French voters are still undecided. That’s a record total this late in the game.
In the “what if” category, two candidates proposed counting blank votes (a vote for none of the party candidates).
It’s quite possible, if not probable, that “nobody” would win in such a match-up.
Via email, Eurointelligence provides some interesting commentary.
The outcome of the French presidential elections is still quite unpredictable. And this is not due to the candidates’ relative performance. The main factor is the undecided voters.
A new poll shows that 40% of the French do not know who to vote for. With just one month to go, this is an absolute record: in 2012 there were 26% at this stage. Undecided, angry, and disgusted, these voters do not even know whether they should bother and go to vote. And of those, 86% would prefer if their lack of preference could be expressed as an explicit blank vote.
With such high numbers the question, then, is whether their blank vote should be a valid one that counts, writes l’Opinion in its lead story. This vote would then be an expression of their preferences, political disengagement, and rejection of all candidates. At the moment these blank votes are counted but do not play a role later when the candidates’ support percentages are calculated. If they were accounted for, certain candidates would drop out in the first round as they would fail to qualify under the threshold, and the winners’ percentage would look much less impressive. It would also have meant that neither Jacques Chirac nor François Hollande would have had a majority of over 50% in the second round. The advantage of such a blank vote is that it might get people to bother to vote, and reduce the number of those who abstain or protest. It also might reduce protest votes which often turn to extremist parties to find expression.
This blank vote idea has been taken up by Jean-Luc Mélenchon and Benoît Hamon, who both advocate a recognition of the blank vote in the counting. But there are considerable hurdles for this. It would require a rewrite of Article 7 in the constitution. This is not about to happen anytime soon. It would also imply that the winner of the second wound could win with only a relative majority. Imagine what the duel between Jacques Chirac and Jean-Marie Le Pen in 2002 would have looked like. Maybe the second round would have been different altogether? Who knows. But with a rising number of politically disengaged people, the blank vote discussion is here to stay. And there are also clear differences among the current candidates on this.
The latest poll shows that, if the blank vote were effective, it would be employed most strongly by the electorate of Jean-Luc Mélenchon or Marine Le Pen, with 44% and 35% respectively. This is followed by Benoit Hamon (33%) and Emmanuel Macron (30%). It would be least used among the voters of Francçis Fillon (22%). The most enthusiastic about a blank vote are the supporters for Mélenchon, Hamon and Macron.
For the last five months of primaries and polling French voters defied predictable outcomes. And now they ponder the question whether to vote in the first round, and for whom. Don’t think you know already who the next president will be.
One further caveat is that if you allow the blank vote to count, you will eventually have to allow it to win. And, in this case, you could end up with a second round run-off between Le Pen and a blank, leaving the electorate with a choice between fascism and anarchy. Have they thought this through?
French Election Polls
In the US, would “Neither” have beaten Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton?
Even if “Nobody” won just a handful of states, it would have denied a majority to one of the others.
A vote for none of the above is a theoretical question, but 40% undecided (38% by Wikipedia) is not.
We have already seen two major election surprises, and there could easily be another one.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
I added a new Iceland post yesterday.
Iceland in 16 Days: Day 15, Gullfoss Waterfall, Golden Circle
https://mishmoments.com/2017/03/27/iceland-in-16-days-day-15-gullfoss-waterfall-golden-circle/
Mish, Checking the percentage turnout of eligible voters and comparing to past elections, this has been one of the lowest in several decades for BOTH the GOP and the Dems.
BOTH candidates were poor choices in the eyes of many, so, evidently they stayed home (third party votes didn’t make up the gap).
If folks didn’t think in purely binary terms, perhaps even more votes would have fallen elsewhere.
If there was a time to vote for third party (e.g. Libertarian), this was it.
If we never vary from an “either or” decision to a “one of” decision, there will never be a consequence for the major parties for offering poor candidates.
Anyone who votes against LePen is in favor of the destruction of France. Personally, I’ve found it a very nice place, until recently. But if people like Mish prevail, it’s gone. On the other hand, when the reconquista happens, it’s prime real estate…..
I think the media wants people to believe that the French are undecided.
That’s what I believe.
No, I do not regret voting for Trump for one second.
I don’t regret my vote for Trump one single bit. He was the best choice by leaps and bounds over Hillary.
If the election comes down to a choice between Frankenstein and Dracula I always abstain. But Trump didn’t represent either of those. Considering all the ridiculous unfair harassment that the globalists have conjured up against him to present – I think he’s done a remarkable job. I’m very happy with my pick.
I am with you LFOldtimer. Trump has far exceeded my expectations. He is fighting off four major opponents……. Republicans, Democrats, MSM and the Deep State and more than holding his own.
Now if we could only get term limits….
As outsider to US all I can add is that even if he only stabilises the country to some kind of basic sense he will have done infinitely better than what else was on offer. I don’t really care much for all the numerous trivialities that must seem a big deal to many people there, and they are mostly remnant from previous policy , what I am talking about is the how cohesive the country becomes and the return to some kind of recognisable integrity to the rest of the world . It is reassuring to look at what is going on and instead of receiving an endless flow of confused hype be able to simply say ‘That is America’.
You are a strange bunch.
We’re still deplorable, and we still love our country!
It’s the people who make any country great, and the politicians who destroy it.
‘Anarchy’?
Spain, Belgium and others went without government for many months, there was no anarchy, just less state. Countries don’t run on bloated government, nearly all laws needed were passed decades ago.
Let people relate to, and make, the world around them instead of always looking to be told what to do and think.
agreed;
“Anarchy” is a bogeyman used by to scare us into believing that politicians & the state performs useful tasks.
I believe the best argument in favour of Anarchy is the size of state circa 1912 in adavanced societies. For example, in the US the entire state apparatus consumed less than 7% of GDP in 1912. Today it’s 42%.
At 7%, the state hardly existed in people’s daily lives. At 42%, it’s leviathan omnipresent in every activity we engage in.
Can anyone really argue that the “anarchy” of 1912 was undesireable ?
Yep, it is the exact argument that comes to mind for me also.
I have lived in countries with small gov. , places where government presence/influence is basically non existent, and they just function, usually at a much more personal level too ( which ranges from sharp initial distrusts, curiosity through to being very attentive and welcoming… depending, but always observant and with strong self identity and sense of purpose )
If you vote for nobody then I would be president because I am nobody.
You already preside over the world around you in the way that you do, the question is if you would like someone else to preside over you and the world around you to whatever degree, and in the form, they are offering to.
Personally I have a lot of difficulty blindly ceding that authority to others, rather I trust people I am acquainted to in a very fluid day to day setting. The more people are able to preside over their own affairs the better as far as I am concerned.There will always be the need for some form of social support, as in group strength , but I am not sure it should (or even could) come via government, or be imposed on all by a majority vote.
I wish you a long and fruitful presidency.
The presence of government just adds an unpleasant and unneeded variable to a person’s life. That, and that it is run primarily by psychopaths and near psychopaths.
Hi Mish, Interesting observation.
Actually, ‘nobody’ is not a valid choice as the position should not be vacant. However, ‘start over’ would be a valid choice.
When I studied the Russian language and culture, years ago, the professor pointed out that in Russian elections, there was only one person running. The people still voted because they could vote ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ If there were sufficient ‘no’ votes, the person was not elected an a new person was selected and the vote redone. It would be nice to have the option “We don’t like anyone running – disqualify them all and start over with new candidates.”
Stuart
I have always advocated putting “None of the Above” on the ballot and if “None of the Above” wins, they have to hold the election over with new candidates.
Most people do not think about politics. They vote for the same party or theme as their parents and grandparents. Political persuasions border on the stability of genetic inheritance. 40% undecided suggests a suddenly mobile vote. They are entertaining a change to something new. What’s new are Muslim rapists, Marine LePen, and withdrawing from the EU. Macron is old and stale.
Better the destructive way of organizing society that you know than the destructive way of organizing society that you don’t know.
Votes for nobody …
https://whiskeytangotexas.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/musie_voting_from_rooftop.png?w=625
Is that an ad for a brand of jeans?
it’s all i noticed.
Well really.
And anyway, it looks like she is showing us the middle finger + I am not fond of black polish. Have to see his/her face before being sure he/she is not transgender too.
OK ok, I’ll admit those are female curves and that is her thumb. I still don’t like the varnish. Just don’t blame me if when she turns round she is wearing a beard ok.
If that was an example of what universal suffrage was all about, at least that particular brand of progressive idiocy, wouldn’t be quite so disastrous.
I voted for nobody but Trump won. He was my second choice. He might have third if Gary Johnson hadn’t had William Weld as his running mate.
I foolishly voted for Gary in 2012. In 2016, it was Trump or whoever had any chance of defeating Hillary Clinton.
As for the obstructions facing Trump, can people seriously think that Cruz wouldn’t have faced as much or more than Trump ? The establishment hated him, too. He is much more conservative, but he finished second.
They are not “undecided’, they live in a country where openly supporting the “Front National” can not only get you fired / insulted /assaulted like Trump supporters in the US but also arrested / jailed / sued by the authorities for saying or posting something politically incorrect unlike the US because France does not have free speech but “hate speech” laws instead…
There were similar attitudes here during Brexit, The msm was all positive its was bremain, with ‘a few’ undecided, but with the general attitude that anyone who was voting for Brexit was a racist, xenophobe, bigot or just plain stupid. Its not surprised that with their bigoted attitude they didnt want to see it coming, and as a result some of the people who wanted to vote Brexit did not want to display it, especially when asked by the msm.
This could be very well what is happening in France now.
A “no confidence” vote option which sends the parties back to get new candidates would be great. The problem is: nothing is perfect and nothing is safe. Most things can be manipulated. What you’re really suggesting is: there should be a requirement that a) the candidates inspire at least a quorum of voters to actually cast a vote so there is actually a meaningful level of involvement and opinion expressed and the winner has meaningful public support, b) if “no confidence” gets 51% of the vote, then nobody wins, all of the candidates that ran are disqualified from running again, and the parties get one month to present and run a new candidate who is not related to the disqualified candidate by blood or marriage. Each element is important.
I would add to a new candidate ,new proposals and the obligation to fulfill it because its the people will .The idea of recover the value of civilistic people that votes for a candidate and a proposal separately,showing who won and his task
I just listened to Mish on Coast To Coast. Great Show. http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2017/03/22
maybe Trump can eventually get around to fixing Chicago:
http://heyjackass.com/
White flight killed off Detroit, white flight is starting to take its tool on Chicongo.
Sorry: toll, not tool. Bar night.
In a real democracy a vote for nobody would be a vote for an empty seat and with the legislative bodies of the world dominated by empty seats there would be no quorums thus no stupid laws passed for extended periods of time.
Whats not to like?
Mish, you must have just watched Brewsters Millions.
In the Dutch elections 2 weeks ago, you could vote for a party called “Niet stemmers”. Translated: “I don’t want to vote”. I wonder what would have happened if they got the majority of the seats in the Tweede Kamer, our parliament.
The best traders in the world are from The Netherlands. In fact, the modern systems on Wall Street trace back to their Dutch roots. It wouldn’t be like them to choose nothing. A something-for-nothing exchange riles their sensibilities, or at least it should.
When his enemies mock Trump by calling him the Orange Man, I think of the Dutch, and realize it’s just a term of endearment. This goes completely over the head of the average US leftist idiot, who resents trade and never created anything worth bringing to market anyway.
I suppose if people don’t want to vote they are not obliged to. ‘I don’t want to vote’ is a funny phrase and I am not sure what it stands for. It sounds like a child complaining at something he is told/forced to do. If you don’t want to vote then it is a bit ironic to vote that you don’t want to, maybe they should add ‘ever again’ at the end? If those elected under the banner wont vote in the new government then it usually goes back to fresh elections, which is likely the true meaning of the phrase.
In Spain the ‘blank vote’ party promises to leave its seats in parliament empty.
UK has its Monster Raving Loony Party
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party
If you think about it Diogenes, traders have to have the ability to not trade, simply not voting does not count – difference between a Dutch auction and a Dutch bargain maybe?
Touché, Crysangle.
The observation must be made that the man traded in Ivana for Marla Maples, then turned around and traded Marla for Melania. Such proficiency in trade has got to warrant at least a knighthood in the Royal Court of Orange.
As for voting by declaring “I wish not to vote”, well, then it would appear that the serfs have finally lost the race to their feudal overlords.
OTH politicians spend their time promising everything and more just to get people to go out and vote for them… political Dutch auction would be fun :
‘ I promise you all these benefits for 25% tax rate! No takers? 24%….23%…. ‘
But you know politicians generally promise it all and for free…what’s a person to do when 50.000001% are ready to believe them.
Macron is a socialist supported by all former Hollane ministers and socialist representatives
Macron will destroy millions of jobs by increasing taxes on investors and entrepreneurs to finance 35 hours per week working law
Macron wants more open borders for so called refugees and immigrants from africa and eastern europe meanwhile France has a shortage of 1 million housing / accomodation
we have 6 million unemployed official rate 10 % / 5 % officially in the US
in reality 9 % unemployed in the US all categories real figures and French real figure is around 15 % I studied economics and was graduated with distinction in Irvine by professor Peter Navarro currently trade minister so not kidding by the way Misch /
France has billions of public debt and Macron will be unable to implement economic reforms due to the unions supporting being allied of leftist socialist party remember french socialist party is more the equivalent of Greek party than democrats in the US
Macron is a marketing product for abroad finacial creditors that lend money to France such as US pension funds to make them believe they will be paid back lol
It will be worse with Marine Le Pen because most of the party rulers are for Russia and anti american and anglo saxon British world they only like the populist isolationist side of Trump but they don t like the businessman side as they are against finance banks etc..
‘It will be worse with Le Pen’
Worse than now, worse than Macron, or just that is what will be worse with Le Pen?
Not sure what others notice, just personal observation sat here in Europe post article 50 and the feeling looking around is a little more stark, a layer stripped away, exposing some harshness… ?
“should have postponed the US election…” lol
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-13/clarke-and-dawe:-the-presidential-race-is/7929574
.
Voting for “nobody” would change nothing. What’s needed is a different voting option: ABOLISH THE POSITION.
Someone once mulled the idea out loud to a bunch of farmers he was turning hay with…
There is absolutely no question that if voters could vote for “None of the Above,” Hillary would have won big. Let me help the slow learners here: Democrats just don’t do indecision or principled decision. They do maniacal Machiavellian power acquisition. Period. When they step into that booth, they go with the “D.” Guaranteed.