Shall we play a game?
Let’s play global thermonuclear war.
Is this a game or is it real?
What’s the difference?
Those WikiQuotes are from the 1983 movie “War Games“.
WarGames is a 1983 American Cold War science fiction film written by Lawrence Lasker and Walter F. Parkes and directed by John Badham. The film stars Matthew Broderick, Dabney Coleman, John Wood, and Ally Sheedy. The film follows David Lightman (Broderick), a young hacker who unwittingly accesses WOPR (War Operation Plan Response), a United States military supercomputer originally programmed to predict possible outcomes of nuclear war. Lightman gets WOPR to run a nuclear war simulation, originally believing it to be a computer game. The computer, now tied into the nuclear weapons control system and unable to tell the difference between simulation and reality, attempts to start World War III.
Here is the ending scene:
‘Fire and Fury’ not Tough Enough
Back in the real world … I think …
Donald Trump says ‘fire and fury’ comment ‘wasn’t tough enough’.
President Donald Trump said Thursday that his previous promise of “fire and fury” in response to threats from North Korea may have not gone far enough, vowing “trouble” for the country if its actions don’t change.
“If anything, maybe that statement [about “fire and fury”] wasn’t tough enough,” Trump told reporters from the steps of his golf resort in Bedminster, N.J. He added, “We’re backed 100 percent by our military.”
Asked if he were daring the North Koreans, Trump said: “It’s not a dare, it’s a statement. Has nothing to do with dare…it’s a statement of fact.”
Should the president decide to act preemptively in the region, NBC News learned Wednesday that the Pentagon has prepared a specific plan for such an attack — one that relies heavily on the use of B-1B bombers.
China to Protect North Korea if US Attacks First
Reuters reports Chinese Paper Says China Should Stay Neutral if North Korea Attacks First.
If North Korea launches an attack that threatens the United States then China should stay neutral, but if the United States attacks first and tries to overthrow North Korea’s government China will stop them, a Chinese state-run newspaper said on Friday.
The widely read state-run Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party’s official People’s Daily, wrote in an editorial that Beijing is not able to persuade either Washington or Pyongyang to back down.
“China should also make clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten U.S. soil first and the U.S. retaliates, China will stay neutral,” it added.
“If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so.”
Is this a game or is it real?
In case you did not know, this is the real world, not a game. And unlike the famous scene in “War Games,” it does matter.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
U.S. has military options for handling North Korea — but none are good
Amid President Donald Trump’s rhetoric and North Korea’s threats, attention is turning to how the U.S. military could respond to the Kim regime.
The United States and its allies have military options for confronting North Korea — including an all-out invasion, more limited air and missile strikes, cyberattacks or a covert effort to oust the regime of Kim Jong Un.
But those scenarios carry enormous risks, including the possibilities of loss of life, loose nukes falling into terrorists’ hands or the conflict spreading to a wider Asian war.
Why China won’t isolate North Korea
China, which sells billions in fuel and food to North Korea, is far better positioned than the U.S. to weaken its volatile neighbor without firing a single missile.
By ADAM BEHSUDI
08/10/2017 06:17 PM EDT
President Donald Trump threatened North Korea with “fire and fury” over its nuclear threat, but China, which sells billions in fuel and food to North Korea, is far better positioned to weaken its volatile neighbor without firing a single missile.
Even as a global nuclear crisis heats up, there’s scant evidence China is willing to impose the major economic measures necessary to cripple Pyongyang — despite Trump’s insistence Thursday that “it do a lot more.”
“China is not willing to put the kind of regime threat pressure that we think is necessary because they don’t want to cause a Korean collapse,” said Joseph DeThomas, a former U.S. diplomat who specialized in sanctions and nonproliferation issues.
The prospect of millions of refugees pouring into China, economic instability in its northern provinces and a possible war on the Korean peninsula are more pressing realities for Beijing than North Korea’s development of nuclear weapons.
please explain why we are threatening killing millions of North Koreans ??
Victor Adam Smith said:
Plus China’s “lie” is a real McGuffin if I ever saw one.
China thinks both sides should de-escalate and engage in direct negotiations. It will not try to force a winner/loser scenario.
Ambrose Bierce said:
China has been using North Korea as its junkyard dog. They would prefer to keep that arrangement. Here’s the thing, if Mexico started firing missiles into the GOM and threatening Cuba, what would America do?
Perhaps America would counsel Mexico and Cuba to sit down and talk directly about their grievances, and offer a supporting role in any negotiations. Perhaps the USA would counsel Cuba to quit threatening Mexico, come to a peace treaty, and get rid of the troops on the border and the overflying bombers and military exercises, and to stop insisting on regime change.
China could easily squeeze NK if it wanted to. Measured China action need not result in a NK collapse. China does not take action because it does not want to.
Why should China take any action to resolve USA perceived (manufactured) problems. Would the USA step in to resolve any of China’s perceived (manufactured) problems. Stop being parochial.
NK has pushed the dispute over the edge into US being able to conduct a just war. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/just/preemptive.shtml
China is saying you may have justification, but we will defend the country from first strike anyhow, irrespective of just war doctrine. That leaves NK to merrily proceed with what it has been doing all along, with the same blessing China has given it all along. This is China’s game – NK is the rottweiler-on-a-stick.
BS: US is still engaged in a state of war against the NK regime; no peace has been signed. The USA has never stopped threatening Korea since 1945. It’s been all about regime change 12.000 km away from home since sept 1945. N Korea has concluded that only a nuclear deterrant can buy safety, since the US refuses to engage in face to face talks.
Violence and threats have not worked. The US did not win the war back then and will not tdoay. Time to experiment with another approach? Something really dangerous, like direct talks?
Ron J said:
“The USA has never stopped threatening Korea since 1945.”
It was North Korea which attacked South Korea in 1950. It was North Korea which sent a team to assassinate Park Chung Hee. It was North Korea which murdered two officer grade MP’s in Panmunjom. It was North Korea which shelled a South Korean island town.
North Korea has kept South Koreans from meeting with relatives in the north, except intermittantly, limiting the number of momentary reunions.
North Korea is the aggressor.
Don’t change the subject…Trump is evil, stupid, or both. NK is HIS fault. Everything was just FINE until Trump entered the scene. Got it?
No, the US refused to even meet with the provisional government in sept 1946, preferring to meet with the capitulated occupying Japanese authority, and instituting their own regime. There was no peace in the intervening years, but bloody revolts quashed by the US military. North and South Korea did not even exist then. What the hell were US troops doing there anyway? Forcing regime change, way before 1950.
1945, not 1946
Ron J said:
The Soviet Union jumped into the war against Japan at its conclusion and moved into Korea when Japan fell. The U.S. moved to prevent the Soviet Union from taking over Korea, which is why Korea is divided.
You seem to have missed that part of history.
Most people under the age of 30 or so can’t even spell USSR.
It’s as if they weren’t taught about it in school…
RonJ is forgetting that the Soviets moved against Japan in Korea at the request of the Americans, and stopped at the 38th parallel. In the 3 weeks before the Americans landed they easily could have taken the rest of the peninsula, judging by the speed with which they took the north. The Americans did not move against the Russians, the Russians kept to the arrangements and waited!!! The US came with a very small contingent, because the Japanese had already capitulated. It would have taken weeks to land enough armor and weaponry to fight the Soviets. The skeleton provisional government was based on organizations and people that had organized before the Soviets or Americans even showed up. The Americans refused to even meet with them whereas they came down to meet and greet the Americans landing in the south, far from Seoul and Pyongyang.
US installed X-Band radar in South Korea to spy on China, over Chinese protests, and maintains a huge (if ineffective) military establishment in SK. Now US wants China’s cooperation?
Ron J said:
” and maintains a huge (if ineffective) military establishment in SK.”
The U.S. military has been very effective at preventing North Korea from picking up where it left off in 1953.
left off in 1953 ??? After 4 million casualties and the leveling of every last edifice standing.
Ron J said:
“left off in 1953 ??? After 4 million casualties and the leveling of every last edifice standing.”
The fighting ended in 1953 and North Korea has never stopped wanting to take over the South, as they started in 1950. Captain Bonifas and Lieutenant Barret were killed in Panmunjom by North Korean soldiers, to that end, as NK demanded and got a resolution at the non aligned nations meeting in Sri Lanka that day, that the U.S. remove its troops from South Korea. NK claimed we had attacked them. When the truth came out, the resolution was dropped.
By the way, i was at Kimpo airport and watched as the coffins of Bonifas and Barret were placed aboard the plane.
I was also at the 25th anniversary commemoration near Suwon, where the first U.S. soldiers died in the effort to stop North Korea from forcibly take over South Korea.
Lay blame on the true culprit. Khazarian bolsheviks who created communism. NK & KJU are complete crap. Add Trump the idiot to the mix and we’ve got a powderkeg.
Ultimately, I think we’re being lied to. What proof is there of NK’s plans to nuke us. Is it one of those “Just trust us” warnings by our gov’t? What does it behoove NK to firststrike the US or its allies with nukes? Only to be obliterated themselves. It sounds like that tiny little racist apartheid wannabe country in the ME is operating the controls on this one, as usual.
I don’t discount the possibility of a false flag to jumpstart this party, a la Tonkin Gulf or Operation Northwoods.
Captain Dave said:
NK is talking about launching some unarmed missiles into the water “near” Guam. Near meaning many miles. Let NK throw its missiles into the sea if that’s what it wants to do. This is just taunting, not an act of war. Even if a nonexplosive missile went off course and landed on Guam it is not a big deal. People are more worried about the perception of weakness than about real weakness. If NK want a war with the USA then let them fire the first real shot. We do not need to give them any moral advantage by being taunted into a fight. What are we, 10 year olds on a school playground? How can anyone let themselves be taunted into action? IT’S CHILDISH! Let them draw the first blood if that is what they want to do. With that, China will stay out of it because China is trying to be fair about it. But if we take the bait then China might just step in and nobody wants that.
Medex Man said:
If there is a military conflict around North Korea, the Chinese port of Tainjin (biggest or second after Shanghai depending on measurements), and the energy ports of Dalian and Quingdao (the two biggest) are all within short range missile distance. A stupid and simple Scud missile launched out of Korea (not even aimed at China) could easily hit important Chinese assets by accident, with minutes notice at most. Imagine if someone fired a missile at Chinese interests on purpose.
North Korea is China’s problem. Kim is unstable and the world knows it; the more Kim acts up, the more everyone in the region will clog China’s ports / seaways with naval assets (China will be forced to do the same, for the same reasons as everyone else).
If NK falls, China has a refugee problem. If NK doesn’t fall, China’s main ports (imports and exports) are increasingly threatened. Is Kim suddenly going to become more mentally stable with nuclear weapons and dozens of enemies in the waters around him?
Its surprising that Xi thinks China can just wait this out. Best case scenario, indecisiveness creates the need for more US navy presence and much bigger build-out of both Japanese and South Korean militaries.
Syria’s Assad isn’t shooting missiles over his neighbor’s heads, and Russia seems to be able to keep Assad somewhat on a leash. By contrast, Kim regularly thumbs his nose at Beijing.
I doubt North Korea can actually hit Guam — its a small island. NK missiles have the range, but do they have the aim? Seriously doubt it. If Kim has a limited number of missiles and a limited number of warheads, he will aim them at Seoul and Japan. The fallout lands in China’s front yard, and everyone is going to blame Beijing for supplying the NK regime with life support.
China has as much to lose as South Korea and Japan. Trump just needs to let Xi squirm; eventually China will force regime change in NK. One belt one road (OBOR) is quickly going to become just a road (no seaways) unless NK is controlled.
Have Chinese military leaders been secretly interviewing NK generals as possible Kim replacements?
please explain how the North Korean gov’t is ‘unstable’ . I see no evidence of this. I observe plenty of misinformation in the deep state press promoting war, but nothing from the Norks
Medex Man said:
Kim is mentally unstable. If you aren’t sure why that is, then you belong in the padded cell next to him.
Whether his regime is stable or about to collapse is 100% the decision of China, which supplies the food and energy Kim needs to placate his generals. China has said they want to cut off supplies (to discourage NK’s nuclear weapons nonsense), but they are terrified of the refugee crisis that is certain to happen as NK implodes.
So I should have been more clear: Kim is mentally unstable. His government is a welfare case that exists but for the grace of Beijing (and Beijing’s understandable fear of a refugee crisis).
That isnt war drums buddy – I said nothing pro/con about attacking. You have to stop imposing your ignorance on other commenters. Criticize me (or not) for what I actually wrote, not what your intolerant brain decided to hear.
“If NK falls, China has a refugee problem.”
More than that, they will have a unified Korea and US ally on their border.
I expect China to make a military move into NK if Kim falls in order to prevent that. Their excuse will be a humanitarian one to prevent further chaos.
“I doubt North Korea can actually hit Guam”
Same doubts here. In any case, Kim isn’t going to attack anyone. His weapons are for regime change prevention, the same reason Iran or any other country the west hates wants them. Their use would LEAD TO regime change, so it is NOT going to happen.
It would be a massive injustice for ANYONE to pursue a regime change of the north Korean’s beloved leader. And for certain we should show deference to China’s interests in the region given they are our bestest buddies of all time, only wanting the BEST for America.
Do Americans have any idea who our friends are anymore? Do we have a clue as to what is actually in our longer term interests?
South Korea is a significant economic power today which would NOT be the case if we had not defended them.
This is a situation where someone must capitulate. NK has shown no desire to moderate. They speak continuously about destroying the entire world if necessary to maintain their regime. We all have reason to disparage our own government, but this is not a moment for relativism. WE are NOT the same as NK. If you believe we are then you should move to NK in their support. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Because otherwise you are simply calculating your odds of imminent survival as compared to others. WINNING at any cost, the first criticism we have for our own nation.
Medex Man said:
Sometimes you just have to leave bad enough alone.
Sometimes you have to recognize that the other guy (China in this case) has much more at stake, and when you call his bluff he will fix the problem for himself.
The USA has plenty of very serious problems of our own to contend with, and its high time we deal with them instead of solving everyone else’s problems for them (often doing a poor job)
“WE are NOT the same as NK. If you believe we are then you should move to NK in their support.”
WHO are you addressing with this? I’ve never made any of the claims in your NON-response to my post. If you think I have, I suggest a reading comprehension course.
You addressed our desire for regime change implying (to me anyway) that NK’s response was understandable and justified.
EVERYONE feels justified, even the most brutal murders. Mao felt justified. Lenin and Stalin felt justified, all killing MILLIONS of their own people. I support a non-interventionist perspective, but ANYONE who thinks that NK is not ultimately a threat to their neighbors and eventually US is STUPID, and if they believe that the solution lies in procrastinating, ignoring, communing or equivocating, they are RETARDED.
The world has united to suppress their growth as a military power for decades, ultimately in the fear of the scenario we face TODAY…that of their ability to threaten and ultimately attack anyone in the world with nukes, and the fact that they may be inaccurate or inefficient does NOT in anyway minimize their threat in my mind. Their goal is to terrorize with a seemingly mindless pointless threat of destruction to anyone, be they a primary target or simply collateral. No rational person would suggest they would unleash nukes KNOWING they have not proven accurate….and ESPECIALLY because he feels justified, makes him all the more dangerous.
If I have misconstrued your position on this I apologize, but my comments were more a general response to what I am reading here this morning.
Mike (not that Mike) said:
“If NK falls, China has a refugee problem.”
No it doesn’t.
If NK falls, we then rebuild it (like every other time).
Then the people are 100 times better off than they were before. No reason to leave.
Medex Man said:
You are fantasizing about money the USA doesn’t have anymore.
Your Social Security check is going to be reduced **AND** the size of government is going to be reduced, and that is in the best case scenario. Congress might want to give away the shop and rebuild Korea (like other times) — but when they find out they must trim their own entourage of personal assistants and regulators, PLUS tell seniors their SS check is shrinking, its going to be a very rude adjustment for a Congress that is too used to wasting money.
PS — while I agree with “that Mike” (the blog host) about tax reform, it can’t happen when there is no money to do it. Obamacare is still going to get repealed, because Congress doesn’t have any choice. Medicare and SS will get trimmed later, again not by choice. The size and scope of government will shrink — definitely not their choice.
They already promised way more than they can deliver, and the retirement of baby boomers means the day of reckoning is really soon. Like 2019 at the latest
The NK regime is not unstable, but has stayed 70 years and managed to perhaps build nuclear weapons under rather adverse circumstances. There is no evidence that Kim Jung Un is unstable or irrational. Guam is where the bombers come from, and N Korea wants direct talks on ending the war and gaurantees of peace. If this were to come about, the regime would lose its legitimacy as a war administration, and things would evolve. N Korea is not going to conquer the world or obliterate the US, regardless the rhetoric. It’s all political and it’s about regime change. The nukes are insurance (deterence).
Ron J said:
“There is no evidence that Kim Jung Un is unstable or irrational.”
He just had a relative, living outside North Korea, who was no threat to him, murdered.
“N Korea wants direct talks on ending the war and gaurantees of peace.”
North Korea is not interested in peace. It is obsessed with taking over South Korea. It has always been the Kim family goal, just as it was in 1950, when they invaded South Korea.
Since 1953, the U.S. has never attacked North Korea, but has ensured the peace.
Medex Man said:
webej is a Soros paid troll, not an intellegent person with an independent opinion.
If you don’t like what webej wrote, send your complaint directly to George Soros. Webej just thinks whatever he is told to think
In the old days, Mao would never have tolerated the NK government of today. Present day Chinese leaders have grown soft on political ideology and strong on their current form of capitalism. Wealth tends to do that. I would believe one of the reasons why the Chinese have not crushed the current NK mop head is that they know more about the nuclear program progress than we and do not believe NK has any viable nuclear weapons. But as long as the NK leaders serve a purpose of keeping the Americans occupied the Chinese will continue to let the Un leader wave his fists at the world.
True, China could shut down the NK state economically today but that would encourage a flood of refugees to cross its border assuming the NK army doesn’t kill them first. As for taking the mop head out, that would be some tough going as the terrain is not suitable for any quick military actions. China may have a billion in population but to lose a million men in fighting a small country is to deplete one’s army unnecessarily. The cost of recruiting and training would be very high and they are about to take on the Indians.
But the cost of doing nothing is very high. Once NK develops nuclear weapons capable of being mounted on ICBMs, the game abruptly changes. I’m sure that the NK regime would be willing to sell nuclear weapons to China’s foes, particularly the Islamic ones. I’m sure the Un leader has been told to keep his hands off the red button until further notice or else. but the or else is good only as long as there are no nuclear weapons developed. After that, all bets are off.
Remember, 90% of the Asian culture is “saving face”.
China has done nothing because it has been in their interest. They have been aggressive in other areas of the world, so letting NK be more of a “threat”/focus of the US has taken the heat off of them. We desire for them to be our ally in the NK issue, so we don’t turn up the heat on their aggressions elsewhere.
I truly believe Trumps rhetoric, which is not different than Obama, Bush, or Bill Clinton, is designed to elevate the risk of China NOT doing something with the slip fat boy in NK
China cares little about NK refugees. They have the military presence to stop them at the border and have been doing so for years. What they don’t want is to lose a proxy with which to distract the US and to leverage against the US.
The solution is regime change via the Chinese. The Chinese know this as well, and I have little doubt they have several options in this regard.
I suspect a coup is already laid out and ready to go at a moments notice.
They just need the “motivation”, and the FACE SAVING opportunity, to execute it.
If you are unable to sleep because you believe the NK’s have a missile capable nuclear device then I suggest you take a look at the night time satellite image of their country.
My take, the crazy fat kid has to shout about the power of NK because that is the message he has used to oppress the population. That, and the fact that a holder of an alternative perspective on the NK side usually find themselves on the wrong end of an anti aircraft cannon.
They are as backward as any other third world country technologically.
A recent picture had NK paratroopers jumping out of bi-planes ffs!
Still, no need to let a little truthiness get in the way of laying waste to a ‘dangerous enemy’ so you can high five the dogs of war.
Agreed. Chances that NK can hit anything with a ballistic missile are minimal, while working ICBM is far beyond their likely capabilities.
So after decades of supposedly trying to stop NK from achieving this, not just because of policies of nonpoliferation, but because the regime has been bellicose and combative towards the rest of the world and abusive and murderous to its won people, we believe that the solution is to simply leave them alone. They were too dangerous fifty years ago to constrain, thirty years ago, ten years ago and now today after demonstrating ICBM and nuclear tests. They are demanding an end to our military exercises, THAAD and all other provocations while threatening to nuke the world.
What this mentality demonstrates is our continued self center nihilistic perspective on the world. We should do NOTHING because we BELIEVE that they can’t touch US. To hell withthe rest of the world. To hell with Japan as NK “test” weapons fly overhead. To hell with everyone but ME.
How about we let NK neighbors decide what they want us to do?
I have heard the story of ‘threat’ so many times I now don’t believe it. Maybe you are right, but the culture in NK seems to be all about bluff and bluster whilst the people starve.
How about the neighbours of NK decide what THEY are going to do.
The list of disastrous US interventions is a long as my arm. All on the back of BS.
Is it bluff and bluster that they now have developed the nuclear weapons AND delivery system that the world has been intent on preventing them from obtaining for fifty years, and are now threatening to unleash on the world?
History is replete with people that have made seemingly crazy empty threats for years only to actually follow through with those threats once they have the weapons and opportunity in hand. NK is approaching the point they have admittedly been working for since their inception.
And just because I’m paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me!
pater eusebius tenebrarum said:
You have to see it to believe it! The scary North Korean navy! Their nuclear command and control center! Kim’s global conquest map! The mysterious black telephone! The gilded binoculars of evil! The haystack of death! Incitatus!
And yet we have been at war for our longest in our history against people in rags hiding behind rocks.
You can discount their desire and ability for large scale destruction all you like, but the Japanese see it a bit differently given his rudimentary rockets flying overhead.
how many know the history of korea from say 1940 ?1 in 1000, probably less. If it WERE known then NK position would be understood and considered perfectly reasonable. Their land has already been utterly devastated by USA before they were saved by Mao. Arent we tired of the USA posturing ?Might be better if serious happens so the US population experience the wars they export. Funniest thing is they name call Kim -fat boy and such -when they are the fattest layabouts who ever lived.
North Korea was as much a product of the soviets as Mao and the US government had a great deal to do with that. Yalta agreement with Stalin established communist regime in what was the most prosperous industrial region of China, and of course our state department refused to give aid to Chiang Kai Shek in resisting Mao, pretty much insuring Mao a free hand in taking over China…Much as we aided Castro in Cuba by refusing to even provide surveillance planes to the Cuba government art the time trying to put down the rebellion.
Our state department has been instrumental in propping up and even establishing tyrannical communist and tyrannical regimes around the world…..our shadow government in pursuit of its own goals….chaos and ultimate a one world government representing us all, accountable to none. CFR. Which is why they nearly vomit when hearing America First come out of Trump’s mouth. They have McMaster in there making their dreams come true, and a Korea conflict would be the icing on the cake for chaos and a new world order.
j c said:
How can US conduct a war against NK if China stops buying treasuries? If China started dumping treasuries today the Donald might not get to finish his golf. The Donald would have to change his tune, thank Beloved Leader for sinking Guam, they were a drain on our economy.
j c said:
Contrary to what Trump claims about 100% support by US military I bet there have been some hot discussions about military approach to NK. Mad Dog Mattis is not lap dog Mattis and I don’t think the top military guys are wowed by Trump’s Peekskill Military academy credentials.
(I think Trump will be firing caddies today!)
– The 4 countries (Japan, China, South Korea, the US) that are most involved with North Korea all don’t want war over North Korea for different reasons. In that regard, I consider the current “North Korea crisis” to be a tempest in a teapot.
– If one replaces the word North Korea with the word China in the narrative of the US then the REAL US intentions become clear. Because the US is making moves to attack China:
GOOGLE the words “Pivot to Asia”.
Conscience of a Conservative said:
Trump has bluffed his whole life. He’s adapting that strategy to the Presidency and its not comforting. Just one look at the map will tell you why military action on North Korea is virtually impossible–China and Russia.
Trump’s been making some ridiculous claims,such as he’s modernized the nuclear arsenal in the past six months, and has ready plans to attack. He’s engaging in bellicose rhetoric precisely because he doesn’t have a military plan. That said, nothing like a military show of force to drive home a point. Bug surprise that the U.S. hasn’t decided to conduct unscheduled war games,bring in additional aircraft carriers or shoot down a North Korean test missile. We can’t blow up North Korea or put troops there but we do have options.
j c said:
Trump is the Paper Tiger as the old school Chinese would say.
He used similar terminology when he was bluffing about WH recordings of conversations with Comey… “you’ll see” . We saw nothing. Hopefully we’ll see nothing with his NK bluster about NK because if we do see something it could be the first inning of WWIII with the game stopped by a nuclear rainout.
Generally, we see little movement in the list of the “Worlds 10 Worst Problems” when they are counted down from least to most crucial. The fact is we would be remiss or negligent not to do some serious reshuffling to reflect the drum beats of war flowing out of Washington and North Korea. Please note, the leap from fourth to first place for “Weapons of war and mass destruction” is very significant because it can be very difficult to get this particular genie back in the bottle once it is out.
Like many people, I do not find what is known as the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction, or MAD to be reassuring. What the world would look like following a nuclear war is very murky, yet today it seems many people consider nuclear weapons as just another tool or option available to solve pesky disputes. The current list of the “Worlds 10 Worst Problems” are listed in the article below.
There is no nuclear threat to US territory from North Korea for want of any capability to land its ICBMs: –
“All tests have shown so far that the North Koreans are nowhere near capable of actually mastering re-entry back through the thick atmospheric layers at supersonic speed. All analysis shows each ballistic missile breaking up.
So they have the bomb, they have the missiles, but they can’t shoot the missile long or even medium range successfully, and they definitely can’t survive re-entry.”
so says Chris Becker yesterday (10 August) at macrobusiness.com.au. Do we think the CIA et al has told this to Mr. Trump yet?
Tomorrow? How about next Tuesday? Or how about Thanksgiving? When will it be time to say NO? When rockets are overhead flying aimlessly towards targets unknown and uncaring? Maybe a nuke on Japan would be concerning enough, although if it was only a near miss, say a half mile off shore….not so much?
This is the same guy who said that in only 8 months the US nuclear missile banks have gone from horribly out of date to modernized and excellent. Either someone read him in on what was already known (they’ve been maintaining them all along), or he’s just a BS artist. Art of the Deal?
A 33-year-old Trump talks NYC real estate in 1980
Brokaw called it: He got lucky buying at the bottom of the NYC market (Ford to New York: Drop Dead!) and was able to wait it out.
So, he reason you are NOT worth billions of dollars is just bad luck?
Sounds about right.
I’ve had my share of luck for sure, and I’ve even been able to take advantage of it. Any investor who ignores luck is going to miss a lot of opportunities.
CzarChasm Reigns said:
It is no game; it is a continuation of decades long imperialism.
“The doctrine of ‘pre-emptive war’ now being invoked by Trump and his advisers to justify an attack, even a nuclear strike, on North Korea was first enunciated by President George W. Bush as the pretext for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. President Barack Obama expanded the Bush doctrine to declare any threat to American ‘values and interests’ sufficient cause for the US to militarily attack another country. This new doctrine is a gross violation of international law. Waging a war of aggression was the chief crime for which the Nazi leaders were charged and convicted at the Nuremberg trials after World War II.”
Selected quote from “US imperialism and the threat of nuclear war against North Korea”
Mission Accomplished said:
China doesn’t want the US at its borders in a regime changed NK.
The US will implement the Wolfowitz Doctrine until something stops them.
A technical analysis:
If you just want the geopolitical reality analysis, skip halfway down the article to the heading: “Neither side wants a fight”.
So Trump is “conjuring up Korean hysteria” by luring them into firing multiple long range ICBM missiles over the head of their neighbors and telling the world they will nuke anyone who attempts to prevent it.
Trump is a godsend as we now have SOMEONE to blame. North Korea has been looking for a culprit for sixty years. Nuclear nonproliferation has been most of the world’s primary agenda for decades, with innumerable failed programs to bribe, coerce and threaten NK into submission to the world’s agenda, and only now, with the election of Donald Trump, they have finally achieved the miniaturization of nuclear warheads on ICBM missiles. DAMN TRUMP!
Yup, North Korea is ALL Trump’s fault. Anyone who attempts to do ANYTHING (now, after it’s too late) is to blame. The collapse of healthcare is Trump’s fault too, right. Rising seas and Venezuela as well, right?
The whole world is reaching peak stupidity, which is why Trump was elected….desperation, and therefore it is most definitely Trump’s fault.
ONCE AGAIN, you attribute MY support for comments made by OTHERS which I did not explicitly agree with. I don’t agree with the Trump blame made in that article. Since you have targeted my comments with responses that don’t relate to anything -I- have said or explicitly supported and since no one could have such incredibly bad reading comprehension, I conclude that you are a troll.
You posted the link and said NOTHING to counter or disparage its primary message.
I guess I’ve been trolling here a long time. I don’t get a lot of arguments and can only assume there are few (or none). You have failed to do so yet, only whining about feeling under attack. Was this supposed to be a “safe space” for you?
How about a little honest debate on the issues? Or is this simply a place to “vent”.
We want to think that NK’s issues an be resolved with negotiations and “talk” after SEEING its failure after decades of trying, and meanwhile, we can’t even have a honest conversation between people that SHOULD have pretty much common values and goals.
How about it?
@ Winston – the way I read it is that Madash was replying to the content of your link and you have chosen to take that personally, to assume his criticism was directed at you. That is the way it comes across to me, the rest follows.
I think we may be learning what Putin and Trump talked about for hours at the G20 pow wow. So suddenly NK has mobile solid fuel ICBMs that break up on re entry leaving no trace. Hey by golly that’s exactly what Russia developed decades ago. Solid propellant at large scale that works is incredibly difficult to produce. Not likely NK developed it with little testing and with their pathetic echnology base. So I’m guessing Putin told Trump he would help Trump orchestrate what we are seeing right now. NK launches mobile solid fuel based ICBM-check. NK threatens to nuke someone-check. Trump bravely stands up to NK thus making America Great again-check. The plan is NK rolls over and Trump emerges as undisputed ruler of the free world politically stronger than all his domestic enemies combined. In return Trump uses that power to end sanctions against Russia. And John McCain falls screaming into the center of the Death Star.
All is proceeding as I have foreseen.
Children playing with fire will get burnt!. Strange civilization where humanity s future depends on a couple of mad men.
Not for the first time…
more saber rattling . It will embolden the US military complex to ask for more funding .
You reap what you sow . We have enabled china to become a juggernaut. Any investment in China must be accompanied with a corresponding technology transfer . China now controls our means of production. How long could we survive if the port of long beach closes ?
The world dollar hegemony is weakening , but it is business as usual in Washington.
Maybe this a step in the right direction :
Mission Accomplished said:
“Leave the gun take the cannoli. ”
“Leave the dictator take out the test sites”
It’s just business
There is one option I have not seen specifically described. NK has $2 B of remaining exports. Identify $500 Million of the easiest to control, and notify NK if there is another nuclear test these exports will be embargoed by force, including Chinese and other Asian countries. If another test, increase embargo by another $500 million. China will object and it might start a trade war with China, but so be it. Better than a nuclear war. I like the conspiracy theories. Very good.
Not a good idea
Trade wars start real wars
I have given it some thought and think there is a solution but America would never buy it. Have China topple NK with US help. Allow Korea to unify. Have the US pledge to remove all presence from Korea in the UN as well as nullify all current defense treaties. Have China agree to see Taiwan As a separate country. Instant diffusion of all conflicts in the Far East. US restrict presence to Japan.
This is the problem: Former Presidents (Clinton, Bush, Obama) have folded and capitulated to fatboy Kim’s demands. US grain and currency were sent to Kim to shut him up for 6 months at a time. All the while he kept building bigger and more powerful bombs with longer potential ranges.
Remember when he sank the SK naval vessel killing dozens of SK sailors? Did Obama retaliate in any way? lol. Hell no. What sort of message did that send to fatboy?
Remember when he fired live missiles that landed in SK territory and killed/maimed/wounded dozens of SK citizens? Any consequences? Hell no.
Now that Kim has been allowed to evolve into being a REAL nuclear threat to the US mainland Trump is left with a huge mess on his hands that was created by his predecessors.
Kim has been conditioned to believe that America will fold to his demands and continue to send him more US resources to feed his people and support his failed economy. Now he’s trying to extort Trump and it’s not working. So the threats of violence and destruction are ratcheted up.
Hopefully Trump will pull a Gaddafi on Kim. International disagreements are one thing. Threats to destroy the USA with nuclear warheads is quite another. Fatboy has crossed the line.
Btw, it’s not like Kim is ignorant of the ways of the western world. He spent a good part of his life living in Switzerland. That’s where he received the bulk of his formal education. So it’s not like he despises the west. Hell, he enjoyed the fruits of the west until the old man died and he returned home and took him place. The only reason Kim rose to a position of power and prominence was due to having the correct sperm donor.
Trump needs to teach this fat spoiled brat an important lesson that the Swiss never taught him.
From another angle, what if,
Plan “A” was a massive debt financed “New Deal” infrastructure boondoggle. Political bickering (And budget constraints) killed that one. So, on to plan “B”, a war, which will rally bipartisan support for phenomenal deficit spending,,, ie: whatever it takes to beat back the Hun, in the name of Motherhood, Apple Pie and the American way of life.
So, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
And, in the aftermath, imagine the pool of cheap labor, to be divvied up among China and South Korea? Why no US cut? Because this last projection of power , if it happens, will likely be the straw that breaks the camels back, ala Vietnam, where China gained low cost subcontractors, and we were driven into the sea.
Like I’ve said, much ado about nothing:
There Are No Signs That US Forces Are About To Go To War With North Korea
Despite President Trump’s tough talk, America’s military posture remains unchanged.
BY TYLER ROGOWAYAUGUST 11, 2017
“It’s a simple case of rhetoric not matching actions. Despite President Donald Trump’s grandiose and reckless statements regarding North Korea, and the hysteria that has followed, there are simply no indications that the US military is preparing for a conflict with the secretive country—at least any more than they already have on a daily basis for the better part of a century.”
No one expects the US to go to war with NK. Of course it’s all words
Look, negotiations with NK by Clinton, Bush and Obama all failed. NK came out smelling like a rose. NK received support from the west in form of resources (grain, dollars, etc…) while they continued to build bigger and more powerful bombs.
Trump saw that his predecessors failed in their negotiations with NK – so he’s using a different type of negotiation; a type that Kim understands: force and consequences.
Kim has played the US like a well tuned fiddle for the last 25 years.
Don’t you think it’s time to try a new approach?
How could the guy who used the atomic bomb on civilians think McArthur was wrong? davee