In its latest move to stop an October 1 independence referendum, the Spanish Government is Poised to Seize Catalan Finances.
Finance Minister Cristóbal Montoro said a mechanism had been approved for the state to take control of the autonomous region’s finances. Madrid is seeking to stop the Catalan government spending public money on its planned independence referendum.
If the deadline is not met, the central government will take over the funding of most essential public services in the region, Mr. Montoro said.
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont launched his campaign for a “Yes” vote on Thursday night in the town of Tarragona, telling a rally at a former bullring: “Vote, and in so doing bring light to darkness that has lasted for too many years.” The crowd shouted back, “Independence”, “We will vote” and “We’re not afraid”, AFP news agency reports.
Public finances are a particularly sore point for Catalans who for years have contributed more to the state budget than they get back in spending on public services.
More than 700 Catalan mayors who have agreed to help stage the referendum now face criminal investigation and police have been ordered by Spanish prosecutors to seize ballot boxes, election flyers and any other item that could be used in the referendum.
The separatists have promised to declare independence within days if, as expected, the Yes vote prevails at the referendum.
Spanish Government Rejects Dialog Request
The Telegraph reports Spain threatens to cut funding for Catalonia over the independence referendum.
The Spanish government on Friday dismissed a letter from Catalan leaders offering talks over their looming independence referendum as “a trap”, and announced it would intervene in Catalonia’s finances to ensure that “not one euro” of public money was used to fund the “illegal” vote.
In the letter, addressed to Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy and King Felipe VI and carried by a number of media, the leaders said they were seeking talks “to make possible what in a democracy is never a problem nor still less a crime: to listen to the voice of the citizens”.
At a press conference following a cabinet meeting, Mr Méndez de Vigo said the government considered it “a sarcasm” that “at this stage of the game” Catalan leaders were speaking of dialogue when “they have only put on the table a referendum yes or yes.”
The spokesman also took aim at Ada Colau, the Barcelona mayor, over her support of the vote, warning she would be “responsible for her actions” and that she was “either with the law or against it”.
The ministers also delivered an ultimatum for Mr. Puigdemont – sign an agreement that public funds would not be diverted for the referendum within 48 hours or the government would seize control of the part of the Catalan budget destined for services and salaries.
A Metroscopia/El Pais poll published on Sunday found that 56 percent of Catalans think the referendum in its current form is illegal, and 82 percent – including 40 percent of voters for Mr. Rajoy’s PP – blame his government for “strengthening rather than weakening” independence forces.
Juncker in Hot water
EC president Jean-Claude Junker created quite a stir when he said the EU would respect a yes vote. His office now says he was misinterpreted.
It took several clarifications from Juncker to deny he said what he said.
Recall that Baseball great Yogi Berra said: “I never said most of the things I said.”
Musical Tribute
Also recall Jean-Claude Juncker is famous for his statement “When it becomes serious, you have to lie“.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
The problem with welfare and guaranteed income and other labels for the government giving cooperative citizens an allowance — is that those citizens are in no position to be uncooperative. They might not be called government property, but in every meaningful sense — they are government property.
Government property does not complain about constitutional rights or police over-reach or political corruption. Government property does what it is told to do, and thinks what it is told to think.
If our blog host’s quotes from two days ago are correct (I think they are) — many of the Catalonians don’t know what they want, so maybe its best they let Madrid do their thinking for them until they grow up.
PS — Juncker… still a drunk
LikeLike
The job of tyrants is to keep their people ignorant, hungry and afraid, be that through direct intimidation or by dependence and bribery. Regardless, democracy becomes an invaluable tool.
Will they reject domination by one leadership to become pawns of another?
When democracy is actually used to vote for independent from any and all domination, only then will it be praiseworthy.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Truth is – as posted before – both Spain and Catalonia are simply regions of the EU. That is the reason Junkers opinion matters. If he recognises Catalonia the truth can’t be denied, Spain if finished as a state.
Spain has no sovereignty if it doesn’t control it’s own currency and borders. Soon it’s defence will be EU too and the Finance Minister. Spain will not even set it’s own tax and spend.
Like most EU/Eurozone regions the reality of their impotence is ignored by the Spanish government as once they admit they are no longer sovereign the question will be “what are we?”. Panic will set in as they realise they are to the EU what Catalonia was to Spain.
LikeLike
The Big Drunk is already backing off his tweets. He won’t recognize Catalonia nor will the EU.
That isn’t a judgement on whether Catalonia “deserves” whatever, nor a comment about their voting rights / lack thereof.
It is simple self preservation on the part of Brussels. Every one of those unelected fools represents a member state; if the Spanish representatives can have their power split up and taken away by the drunk, so can everyone else… and they know it.
If Catalonia joins the EU, it will dilute the voting power of every one of them — and strengthen the drunk. The drunk knows it, and so do the bureaucrats.
If the citizens lose their voting power, tough cookies for them. The EU never cared enough about European citizens to bother getting their consent. But we are asking some bureaucrats to give up their own power now… whole new ball game.
LikeLike
If citizens are the property of Spain or Catalonia, what does it matter, if ultimately they are property of the EU?
At this point the sovereign nations within the EU are simply the enforcement arm of the EU (they have no true sovereignty), while providing a protective barrier to their EU leadership…..none of which are elected directly by the people.
It appears they are arguing over semantics that lack any real impact on their circumstances.
LikeLike
Oh, it does matter. If you are from, say, Madrid and are as 1d1ot as to take a job in Catalonia, then you will have to pass a series of really tough exams to prove that you are fully conversant in that language (reading and writing), you will not be able to speak it at work, even if you are a doctor or a judge, you will not be able to open a shop with a Spanish name, your children will definitely NOT be able to study in the official language of the State they are nationals of, at school they will be taught that Spaniards are a rude, ineducated lot who are stealing them (rather the opposite is true) and they will even be denounced and punished if they are caught speaking Spanish between them. This has been so for decades now. You will not find a single theater play in Spanish, and in public places many people will relentlessly reply to you in Catalan, regardless of whether you understand them.
This didn’t use to be so only 30 years ago. Two generations have already been indoctrinated with that poisonous propaganda, just because the minority Catalan nationalist’s votes were much needed by the other parties to form a majority Government at the Spanish Parliament. The ultimate aim of the nationalists –the part of them that are not plainly bolsheviks– is to not be accountable for their huge corruption in the Spanish courts. To be authorised to do any business in Catalonia, EVERY company must pay a 4% minimum personal bribe to the local authorities. The founder of the nationalist party, J. Pujol, has amassed hundreds of millions in bribes, which he and his family safely keep in Andorra, Cayman, Guyana etc. I am not making this up —it’s in the newspapers’ archives.
The Basque region, the Galician region and others are following the same path, which will inevitably end up in Yugoslavia 2.0. Just wait and see.
LikeLike
The point is one day Spain might try to do to the EU what Catalonia is doing to Spain.
Not yet perhaps if Spain receives money from the EU.
When the money flow reverses, things change, questions get asked.
The money flow, will one day, reverse.
“Finance Minister (A) said a mechanism had been approved for the (EU) to take control of the autonomous region’s finances. (Brussells) is seeking to stop the (X) government spending (EU) money on its planned independence referendum.”
Only a matter of time.
LikeLike
Spain has an army. Brussels does not.
LikeLike
2025, the other way round.
LikeLike
Spain’s post Franco demographic trajectory (or should that be tragedy….), is only marginally more amendable to army formation than Japan’s is.
Ditto for most of the EU. The French do have some kids, that conceivably could form an Army. But French armies don’t fight. They surrender. That’s what they train for. And do.
LikeLike
Many countries removed obligatory military service, Spain included, not too long ago. The military Spain has is therefore a professional one and plenty strong enough to defend whatever version of Spain is in force. The paramilitary Civil Guard make up near half the total force ( and are one of three branches of policing, the others are national and local, who now have joint command). In Cataluña the Mossos are a regional force that have replaced the Guardia Civil and national police force there. Hence the deal of having a pro-independence chief recently appointed. They are supposed to follow national law, the Guardia Civil is being drafted into Cataluña more over the past year to provide national presence. The Basques also have their own force that shares duties with the others in Basque country, the Ertzaintzas, they are considered pro-Spain.
The Spanish military and Guardia Civil are constitutionalist and nationalist, no doubts there, so the only problem would be if there was political chaos and loyalty had to be decided between say a putative national government with public support and a more traditional regimen that seemed threatened by it.
The Guardia Civil are highly rated by the Spanish as far as any other public institution is concerned, higher than government if I remember. Some don’t like the idea of military police, and they are not always perfect, but they have a high standard of discipline and honour. The local police have not a good reputation by comparison.
So I suppose it remains to be seen how the Mossos and Guardia Civil interact in Cataluña, so far all is orderly.
As far as vs. EU is concerned that is first a question of national politics, but the Spanish military would be the last to give up its identity I think – very tenacious in that respect.
LikeLike
@Fish — you keep talking about the EU building / getting an army.
Do you have any evidence that this will happen in the real world (lots of delusions happen on EU paper)?
I don’t know where they would get the money, the equipment, or the training — since the only member states with functioning militaries are UK and Turkey.
There is also the matter of money, or lack of it. The EU can’t bail out Greece, but they will have EUR300 billion to build an army?
And last but most important — where are the soldiers going to come from? its one thing for Brussels to declare themselves dictator, but all over Europe the man on the streets is protesting against Brussels. They are not going to serve in the EU’s oppression force.
One of Europe’s biggest problems is demographics… all the member states have a shortage of young people already. Is this going to be a geriatric army?
I don’t think the EU has the means or the will to create an army, even if the Eurocrats issue a decree.
Command and control of this magic army is another problem. The EU proved itself incapable of being effective in Libya and in Bosnia-Serbia. Even if the EU built an army (which already seems ridiculous), the army would be too bogged down in bureaucracy to be effective.
Not only is the 2025 timeline ridiculous, even a 2125 timeframe is ridiculous.
I think you make a lot of good comments here, but this omnipotent Brussels stuff is really bringing down the quality of comments.
Show us your evidence that the EU can build even a halfway effective military — because ALL the evidence to date shows they can not.
And please stop claiming the EU will have a real world army by 2025; even if the EU had a better track record on military matters that would be an extremely aggressive deadline.
LikeLike
@chrysangle wrote ” The military Spain has is therefore a professional one and plenty strong enough to defend whatever version of Spain is in force. The paramilitary Civil Guard make up near half the total force…”
Sending in a military force to subdue a rebellion is one thing. Getting the locals to produce the 20% of GDP that Madrid needs to function is quite another.
Blow up someone’s house, shoot their family members, and then try to get their cooperation keeping the economy afloat.
Its exactly like “winning” an argument with your spouse. You “won”, but you’ll regret it.
LikeLike
I’m aware of that, which is why this can all become very miserable..
last time it ended in decades of dictatorship, i.e. national authority was maintained.
LikeLike
It’s funny but the statement below will one day be rewritten with the words in brackets used instead when a region of the EU wants to break free. The statement is from Misht post above.
“Finance Minister (A) said a mechanism had been approved for the (EU) to take control of the autonomous region’s finances. (Brussells) is seeking to stop the (X) government spending (EU) money on its planned independence referendum.”
Only a matter of time.
LikeLike
Precisely!
LikeLike
Madrid issued an edict saying they were going to take control of Catalonia’s local finances — but its not clear whether they are able to actually do so. The local mayors (and local bureaucracies) don’t seem to really care what Madrid thinks.
This is not a question of who is “right” from a legal prospective. The people on the ground are apparently fed up with Madrid to the point they don’t care even if their referendum were illegal — they are doing it anyway.
I don’t think the EU has been glued to reality since Brexit, and they seem to be drifting further and further away. Maybe the EU issues the edict Fish talks about, but will it matter?
The EU **DID** take control (officially) of Greece’s finances, and it didn’t make one lick of difference.
LikeLike
Prediction – Junker et al will twist this to further increase EU power.
That will be the important outcome in hindsight.
“Europe will be forged in crises, and will be the sum of the solutions adopted for those crises”.
(Jean Monnet, Father of EU’)
LikeLike
All the Catalan press headlined his statement “EU says will accept referendum decision”, describing it as a big boost. He has set expectations, is playing both sides maybe.
Not sure who commissioned this:
THE LEGITIMACY OF CATALONIA’S EXERCISE OF ITS RIGHT TO
DECIDE
A REPORT BY A COMMISSION OF INTERNATIONAL EXPERTS
“10. Thus, whatever the conflicting claims of legitimacy put forward by the political actors, international practice and transconstitutional jurisprudence show that successful selfdetermination processes always rely at some point on a negotiation procedure. In that perspective, the experts recommend the exploration of an earned sovereignty negotiating process within the framework of the EU. This would imply involvement by EU institutions; we consider it possible in the perspective of a negotiation within the EU, fully implying Spain in seeking for Catalonia a constrained sovereignty solution, as a full member of the EU”
But it is finding its way into the discussions.
LikeLike
The EU will weezle it’s way into this to gain more power for itself.
Depending on the outcome it could embolden others.
Breaking regions into smaller regions suits the EU well. So much easier to control and govern. Bits of chocolate broken off the bar, easier to melt down and control. Smaller vassals.
Does anyone else see this?
LikeLike
Sort of inevitable as sovereign power disolves into Euro, so I just see it as part and parcel of creating a new order.
LikeLike
Fish –> “Does anyone else see this?”
Nope, I see more and more regions distancing themselves from national governments that they see as Brussels pawns.
I see more and more countries giving up on national assemblies, and just ignoring Brussels edicts. They are not represented, Brussels doesn’t care about them, and they know it. The feeling is mutual.
For all the great power nonsense, Brussels has ZERO power on the ground where it counts. A recent visit to Greece showed that Athens bureaucrats are all about bowing to Brussels, but the average Greek on the street couldn’t care less about Athens much less Brussels.
Our blog host could declare himself emperor of all of Europe, and he would have exactly the same amount of clout outside government buildings as the EU does.
I don’t know if Juncker will grab more power on paper. He might even declare himself supreme emperor of Europe for all I know. But who cares?
Tax evasion is a national past time in Greece, Italy, France and Luxembourg. With the influx of Syrians, law and order is leaving Germany quickly. Sweden’s police say they are overwhelmed with immigrant crimes.
I see the EU moving further and further away from reality — kind of like the Shah of Iran did in later years. The Shah had an army, plus a very very effective (not to be confused with moral) police / intimidation force. And according to the Shah, everyone in Iran loved him.
Whether or not one agrees with the Mullahs and other extremists views — the Shah’s view was not grounded in reality. The EU is also not grounded in reality.
LikeLike
The introduction of the Euro did have an effect though, it is long to describe, but in the case of Spain the financial order, hence political order, hence national order, that was controlled by Madrid, was lost.
LikeLike
@chrysangle — if this was just about Catalonia, and we weren’t seeing lots of “who cares what Brussels thinks” movements going on all over Europe…. but its everywhere all over Europe.
And if we are honest, Trump won because most Americans are fed up with the corruption and arrogance of Washington DC. Maybe Trump will fix it, maybe not — but Washington keeps getting more and more isolated from the people it supposedly represents.
Western media have been whining like 2yr olds that Trump isn’t fit for office — a statement that carries no weight given the hopeless disasters that the media has favored. Thousands of heavily opinionated “news” garbage, and not one of them wants to admit that Trump is the symptom, not the problem.
My gut tells me that Europe’s media isn’t really hearing Europe’s citizens either.
LikeLike
Bilbao and Barcelona should join forces. Perhaps add red and green stripes to yellow striped flag.
LikeLike
‘Junker is in hot water’. More likely he is wallowing in Schnapps.
LikeLike
I thought he was a brandy drinker? 🙂
Pickled is pickled, no matter what form the alcohol was delivered in
LikeLike
Millions in Catalonia will hit the streets. They will not buy into this sitting down.
LikeLike
I get from the state far less than I give, so I will consider declaring myself independent and pay taxes to myself. All I need is a democratic vote (for myself)
LikeLike
What if the Catalonian’s do sit down?
What if they move as much activity as possible to the black market (off books / no taxes), and do the minimum they can on the books?
The Greeks did this already and completely neutralized Athens. The Italians did it already, and Rome is neutralized.
If Catalonia is ~6% of the Spanish population, and ~20% of Spanish GDP, just sitting on their hands would bring Madrid to its knees.
LikeLike
The EU and Spanish government are basically powerless and dysfunctional. The vote will happen but like Brexit overall changes will be hard to see. Would not be surprised to see the EU role Catalonia into the EU as another puppet state and adjust the books for Spain to financially level the changes.
LikeLike
+100 –> “The EU and Spanish government are basically powerless and dysfunctional.”
I can definitely see Madrid and Brussels issuing decrees and edicts and fatwas all over the place.
I don’t see anyone in Europe giving a damn. The disgust with big government isn’t just in Catalonia, or just in Brexit land, or just in 3/4 of Italy’s political parties wanting to dump the Euro, or just the CDU losing lots of local elections while Merkel gets tomatoes thrown at her. It isn’t just Poland and Austria refusing to accept immigrants as Brussels demands. It isn’t just Greece continuing their status quo, in defiance of Brussels and IMF….
LikeLike
Good morning American friends I am french citizen living in south of France I have Catalanese origins as my grandfather inmigrated for economical reasons in the 1930 s to work in the building sector in France. Sometimes I m going to Barcelona for holidays and even went to Salou next to Cambrils had great fun at the beach as at that time terror attacks did not exist and everything was peaceful.
For my part I am strongly against any secession because Catalonia has already a lot of regional powers and liberties for fiscal policy for police for their language and traditions etc…
Would catalonia alone be stronger to compete with China ?
Would Catalonia without the spanish state from Madrid be stronger against islamic terrorism ?
Welll I don t think so it is a wrong problem
Had it happened in Russia or China the central government would have already sent the army
I am against Texas or California for instance to be independant from the federal state and Washington dc as the USA shall remain a superpower
Conclusion big countries in the world must lead like growth stxx in the market and not be dismantled to lag behind small countries.
PS My favourite american politician is George Washington so don t touch his statues please for the sake of history
LikeLike
Does Catalonia compete with China at all?
Does Catalonia have an Islamic problem except for any brought upon it by Spain and Spanish and EU decisions?
LikeLike
Don’t fool yourself. Those decisions have been taken solely by the regional government, aiming to dissuade/dislodge Spanish speaking Latin Americans and replace them by Middle East citizens. A result has been the recent attacks in Barcelona. The investigation of the attacks leads to Ripoll, a small Catalonian town that has already two mosques, reputedly run by extremists.
LikeLike
An interesting article on the legal position of the 55000 Catalans summoned to tend voting booths. (In Spanish)
http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20170916/431299383804/exponen-seleccionados-mesas-electorales-1o.html
Basically they cannot be sentenced for appearing or not appearing, the hand is with Spain due to the referendum being suspended, technically Spain would have to warn each individual personally first for disobedience, unless a state of siege or emergency were declared, at which point it is no longer disobedience but sedition or rebellion with no warning needed.
I expect police will be charged with notifying people, if not before, then on the day.
One point made is on legitimacy – all those who attend the booths are likely to be pro-independence…. so in short Spain’s stance both encourages a yes to independence result, at the same time delegitimising it….those that want independence vote, those that don’t don’t.
?!? Hmmm.
LikeLike
Was there ever a rebellion, anywhere anytime, that was “legal” in the eyes of the government being rebelled against?
There is a Seinfeld episode where Jerry tells a woman he is breaking up with her, and she says “no, I don’t give you permission to break up with me”…
LikeLike
It really is impossible to deny that governments are violent thieves.
btw if the British referendum had been phrased as English independence from Scotland would the Junker drunk refuse to recognize England in the EU?
Viola- No Brexit negotiation.
LikeLike
Reblogged this on World4Justice : NOW! Lobby Forum..
LikeLike