The Independent reports Spanish police storm Catalan government buildings to stop independence referendum.
The Catalan president described the raids as a “co-ordinated police assault” and a “de facto state of emergency”.
Spanish national police have stormed ministries and buildings belonging to Catalonia’s regional government to put a stop to the region’s independence referendum.
In the early hours of the morning armed officers arrived at various Catalan ministries, including the economy department, foreign affairs department, and social affairs department, Spanish media reports.
At least twelve Catalan officials are said to have been arrested, including the chief aide to Catalonia’s deputy prime minister, Josep Maria Jové. The arrests come as the mayors of Catalan towns who back the referendum were yesterday questioned by state prosecutors.
Pro-independence crowds have formed outside the regional ministries in support of the provincial government and in protest against the raids and searches.
Speaking at lunchtime Carles Puigdemont, the president of the Catalonian government, said the Spanish government had “de facto suspended” home rule in the province.
Spanish Assembly Rejects Use of Force
The tactics of prime minister Mariano Rajoy have not won him any popularity contests.
The Spanish national assembly on Wednesday rejected a motion to support the Spanish government’s heavy-handed response to the the referendum by 166 votes against to 158 in favor, after the centre-left opposition party PSOE teamed up with left-wingers Podemos and smaller separatist parties in the parliament.
After news of the raids broke on Wednesday, separatist political parties, as well as Podemos, cancelled all their planned political events for the rest of the day.
“It is unacceptable for there to be political prisoners in a European democracy. The Partido Popular leads us to an authoritarian regression that cannot be tolerated,” a spokesperson for Podemos said on social media.
Government Suspended
The Guardian reports Catalan president says Madrid is suspending region’s autonomy.
The Catalan president has accused the Spanish government of effectively suspending the region’s autonomy and declaring a de facto state of emergency. Police officers raided Catalan government offices on Wednesday and arrested 12 senior officials in a bid to stop an independence referendum being held in less than two weeks’ time.
Carles Puigdemont described the raids as a “a co-ordinated police assault” that showed that Madrid “has de facto suspended self-government and applied a de facto state of emergency” in Catalonia.
Speaking after an emergency ministerial meeting, Puigdemont vowed the poll would go ahead, adding: “We reaffirm our peaceful response. The Spanish government has crossed a red line and become a democratic disgrace.”
The mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, tweeted: “Searching public bodies and arresting officials for political reasons is a democratic scandal. We defend Catalan institutions.”
Mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau
Mayor Colau is against independence but she does want to allow the vote.
What if Britain treated Scotland the way Spain treats Catalonia?
UK MP Daniel Hannon hits the nail on the head with his Telegraph piece on Europhiles.
Imagine that, instead of agreeing terms with Alex Salmond on an independence referendum, David Cameron had prosecuted him. Suppose Tory MPs had called for troops to be deployed to prevent a vote, and for Scots to be Anglicised. Scottish voters would have felt, with justice, that they were being treated as conquered vassals and the United Kingdom would have cracked apart.
Incredibly, Spanish conservatives are taking this line on Catalonia. For many on the Spanish Right, hostility to separatism is the core of their beliefs. They justify their inflexibility by pointing to the letter of the constitution, which forbids such plebiscites, but their motive is more atavistic than legalistic. Paradoxically, they are creating the very thing they purport to oppose. You persuade people to stay by making clear they are free to leave.
Rajoy’s tactics have done nothing but drum up support for independence.
Catalonia Shortchanged?
In Catalonia’s case, the regional government says that Madrid shortchanged it by somewhere in the range of €11 billion to €15 billion in 2011 (between €1,500 and €2,000 per capita), depending on how one does the calculations. The central government countered by saying the gap was only €8.5 billion.
By the Spanish government’s own admission, Catalonia is shortchanged.
Those are 2011 numbers, from a 2015 article in Fortune, but I have seen nothing more recent.
A September 2017 BBC article, referenced below, mentions the same numbers.
Region or Nation?
“With its own language, a recorded history of more than 1,000 years as a distinct region, and a population nearly as big as Switzerland’s (7.5 million), Catalonia’s claim to nationhood is serious.”
The above snip from the BBC report Catalonia’s Collision Course with Madrid.
I support that view. More importantly, so do 700 mayors in the region.
Let the voting begin.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
I think the most important question is will Barca have to leave la liga.
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Brilliant!
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Rajoy is acting like Gorbachev. Gorby sent the Red Army to capture government buildings and broadcast facilities in the Baltics; by the end of the following year not only were the Baltics gone, but the USSR was as well and Gorby was out of a job.
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Viva La Revolution against criminal governments and bankers!
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Speaking as a Candian who has lived under the threat of Quebec separatism I can sympathize with Spanish conservatives who want to shut things down.
Although I believe that raiding separatist politicians and siezing control of the Catalan government is wrongheaded I can sympathize with Spanish conservatives.
As a Canadian I have lived through 2 referendums on Quebec secession with a separatist threat that never really goes away. These separatist movements are never just placated with a one and done vote. Instead, they fester and drag on for generations, even for centuries. Separatist politicians will raise the spectre of independendence whenever the winds seem to be blowing in their favour. Central governments respond to separatist tendendencies in two ways: repression and/or bribery. Canada has chosen bribery as it’s political tool of choice for dealing with Quebec. Quebec gets more money per-capita from the central government than any other province.
At some point the rest of Canada might just decide to have a referendum of it’s own kicking Quebec out.
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As a fellow Canadian, your explanation was perfect. The only saving grace is Quebec’s independence is largely based on French language and culture which is slowly being eroded by the internet and immigration. Eventually there will not be enough francophones to muster the interest in the subject. Hopefully.
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I should add that it was our current leader, Prime Minister Zoolander, whose father, Mr. Truedough, brought us the gift of bilingualism. Worst idea of the 20th century.
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“Spanish conservatives”………that’s too cute!
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Spain is only two generations removed from Franco, so I’m not sure that I’d use the term “cute” to refer to Spanish conservatives (regardless of how displeased you may be with Western Europe’s current liberal policies).
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The scariest thing about Spanish history post Franco, is that it has done at least as much to vindicate the old Caudillo, as it has to prove him wrong. This latest bout of nonsense, is surely not going to change that.
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The scariest thing about Spanish history post Franco, is that it has done at least as much to vindicate the old Caudillo, as it has to prove him wrong. This latest bout of nonsense, is surely not going to change that track record for the better.
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interesting example for the CALexit crowd
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At the heart of all rebellions is MONEY.
No one really gives a damn about FREEDOM if their stomachs and bank accounts are full.
And that is how they are seduced into GIVING AWAY both.
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin
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sounds like this is one big money issue and not one of Catalan nationalism. Spain should just negotiate a fiscal package where the Catalan region keeps a little more of their tax receipts. storming the legislature will just make things worse
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Well from here on the more informal discussion on who is right or wrong sort of ends I suppose, and we are on to creating/denying facts on the ground. It reduces to questions of rational-legal authority, tradition and democratic legitimisation , and those tend to reduce to the monopoly on the use of force and its acceptance/legitimacy by a population. De facto, no one has a monopoly really, they just have to maintain an effective superiority that removes questions of dissent.
Sad day that it arrives at this.
Liners for lodging 4000 anti-riot police dock
https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2017-09-20/referendum-cataluna-interior-fleta-cruceros-turisticos-alojar-antidisturbios-desplazados-a-cataluna_1446467/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BotoneraWeb
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The news from the former Spanish Pureto Rico & Dominica is grim. US Naval forces were off the Florida coast. British forces were in the British Virgin Islands assisting in recovery. News is spotty and there seems to be news black out now. Has Spain assisted its former colonies in times such as this ? Have the people of these islands then welcomed assistance from Spain in the past ?
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Spanish assistance to fellow hispanics is mostly private initiatives and ngos. Disaster relief occasionally occurs, usually as part of international mission. Bluntly, Spain (state) is often regarded/remembered as empirical, though there are closer ties at societal levels, regional admin also sometimes, and it also has a dominant/own business attitude that is not particularly open. That is not to say unfriendly, just a bit like “you have had your chance with us” and decidedly. A lot of politics involved.
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Eventually, it comes down to this:
Will they pick up a rifle, walk a patrol, man a bunker or enforce a check point?
Most men won’t do it. Even if it means their one chance at freedom. Even if it means protecting their wife and daughters from rape. Even if it means living is slavery.
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This is hybrid warfare going on, asymmetric and modern. Spain is taking the traditional position, but the whole country can be undermined at social, political and financial levels. The rules have changed, someone taking a bullet is sympathised with. There are enough Catalans, is enough international presence, to make it mission impossible for Spain without firing a shot.
But protestors will be out, if only unarmed but who knows, to show their discontent. This is not like US riots or protests, many see Spain (the entity that has the force) as an illegal occupier in their land.
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Here is an updating from ara.cat, owner sided with independence
http://www.ara.cat/politica/escorcolls-guardia-civil-contra-referendum_12_1873132669.html
And an updated crowd photo
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Mexico and Puerto Rico are shining examples of Hispanic culture.
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of what is your nation a shining example? everything good and wholesome i presume.
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Spain produced a lot of really hot chicks. Show some respect.
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Don’t forget my personal favorite, fish tacos!
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These “democracies” are only a marketing gimmick. When real choice is not to the liking of those above us, it is usually shoved aside. Good luck to Cataluna.
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“At least twelve Catalan officials are said to have been arrested, including the chief aide to Catalonia’s deputy prime minister, Josep Maria Jové. ”
Arrested? But I thought Mr. Juncker said that when “things get serious” it would mean it’s time to lie to the people. He never said nothing about getting arrested…
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isn’t omission effectively a lie?
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What I don’t understand is why the persistent reflexive attitude that a particular group can’t or shouldn’t “Brexit”. Maybe it falls in the category of using governments to prevent competition (you might get a better deal on the other side of the border) Or maybe why people who evade taxes get the full retribution of the state.
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This is not “Brexit”, it is more similar to the Confederate states secession.
Should it be allowed? Who really knows. What will the US do? I suspect, at best, remain neutral, but perhaps back Spain.
The EU is not going to back Independence, they don’t wish to fan the flames of Independence.
The People of Catalonia are not free. They are subjects/serfs of Spain and of the EU. They will be forced to remain so, up to and including the use of military force, prison and death.
Only the US can help them now. And we won’t. And I’m not sure we should.
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more similar to the Confederate states secession
Yea, I was thinking about that one too. I have never come to grips with I’ll say Lincoln (but I expect there were more behind that) decided that war was the answer. I expect that the carnage, particularly if you add both sides, way exceeded what the North may have gained from the tariffs.
My bias is that I wish the confederacy had been successful in independence but my fantasy history also figures that by now most, if not all, of the south would have been bribed into rejoining.
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“The People of Catalonia are not free”. You surely mean about half of the population in Catalonia are not free. Do you know of any country where a national’s children is not allowed to learn the nation’s official language, which happens to be their parents’ language as well? Can you even imagine a Land in Germany where you are German speaking and your kids are not allowed to learn German nor who Goethe, Mann, Mahler, Bach or Leibniz were? What are you talking about? Would you support granting independence to the KKK to govern Georgia for whatever historic/economic alleged reasons?
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Wow. Reminds me of Kristallnacht 1938.
Did the US State Department condemn this action as an assault on democracy yet?
Paging Rex Tillerson.
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Hi Mish – I am a regular Follower of your blog and I share in 90% of the Topics your views. But as to the Catalunian Independence movement you are unfortunately dead wrong. Why?
(1) this movement is primarily driven by the regional parties CUP (self-admitted Stalinists) and ERC (thoroughbred socialists). What we have here is a combination of nationalists and socialists – the Abbreviation for that is NAZI. In Germany it was NSDAP (“National-Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei”)
(2) both parties are in contempt of the principles of democratic legitimation since they explicitly don´t care about a Minimum participation rate in that referendum.They clearly stated that even if only 48% would participate in the Referendum they would declare Independence. This is the opposite of democratic legitimation. Even the Mayor of Barcelona stated that she is not in full Support because of this lack of democratic legitimation – however, she doesn´t block the Referendum (how she can reconcile those conflicting views in her mind remains her secret)
(3) since the Catalunian Population is deeply divided more or less 50:50 it is inacceptable that if only half of the Population Supports Independence that the other 50% are forced to follow
(4) CUP + ERC repeatedly broke Catalunian and national law. 2 weeks ago they pushed through a Change in the Catalunian election laws. In this Ballot in the regional parliament, the Opposition left the plenum because of the obvious illegality under both laws (regional and federal). The national-socialists nevertheless regard this legislation as legitimate
(5) those National-Socialists since years abused the state apparatus to intimidate citizens who were publicly declaring that they do not Support the Independence movement
(6) in spite a lack of democratic legitimation those Natiional-Socialists abused tax-Payer funds in the millions in that they set up “ambassies” in many countries as if they were an Independent state
(7) the Independence movement is financially supported by the Catalunian state; ever wondered why there is no “no-movement”?
The whole issue could have Long been settled if the central government would not be as stupid as it is and Acts.
Years ago they could have said the following: we will accept the Outcome of a Referendum if 5 conditions are met: (1) there has to be a high participation rate of say 75% or 80%; (2) there has to be a convincing majority of at least 65%; (3) Prior to any Referendum the “independistas” have to explain how they will settle their debt obligations (billions) towards the national Pension scheme; (4) Prior to any Referendum the “independistas” have to explain to the electorate what currency they will have and use ( in case of Independence they would automatically kicked out of the Eurozone and re-admittance would require unanimous vote by the other member states – Spain certainly would vote against); (5) Prior to any Referendum they have to explain to the electorate how they will deal with their debt-to-GDP Ratio of over 100% and how they envisage to tap on the capital markets
Those are the real Topics which massively affect the Catalunian citizens. They are not told anything about those fundamental Things. They will trade Democracy and prosperity for Independence and socialism.
Had the Spanish central government adopted this route the whole case would have been settled peacefully and the whole indepence fake Propaganda would have ceased to exist.
Best – Tillmann from Barcelona
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Part of Catalan history at least but I don’t know how applicable it is today…. some would say Spanish fascist symbols are as bad…arguments that don’t settle… I checked and the below photo is real:
https://clubcortum.wordpress.com/2017/01/09/una-nit-de-reis-recordant-el-passat-de-lestelada/
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Complete nonsense. Give it time and there will be such, just wait and see.
“It is unacceptable for there to be political prisoners in a European democracy.”
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European Democracy?
Who elected Junker?
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Let’s see those clever people in Brussels broker a negotiated settlement – fat chance unless it involves more powers to the EU and both sides rolling over.
Spain and others need to wake-up. Not much longer and the sovereign states of the EU will have dissolved and this dispute will be looked back upon as “cute”.
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Interesting all the comments that support the vote and independence. But as I recall, the vote itself was deemed to be illegal by The Spanish Supreme Court. Then there is the fact that there are many who do not wish independence from Spain and do not care to be forced into a situation where they must decide. Some want a vote but not independence. Some want a vote and independence. Those who want independence seem to have no clue as the type of government they want. There are no considerations for those who will be caught between the independent minded and the rest of Spain. Kind of reminds me of the military service back during the years of the draft, everything is SNAFUed and no one cares to fix the problem. Yeah, lots of troops standing around waiting for orders. Hurry up and wait at its best. And rule of law lost in the shuffle.
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Well, what a Statist piece of filth you are.
The People should get to decide their form of Government, not some body created by the previous violent invaders of their land.
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Did the American Indians got to decide their form of Government or was it some body created by the violent invaders of their land? The Indians supported the British because the King was far away and made it illegal for the colonists to cross the Appalachian Line while the colonists were up close and personal and didn’t mind encroaching on their living space.
The British King and his Courts deemed the American Revolution to be illegal. An estimated one-third of colonists wanted to stay loyal to the King, one-third didn’t care who they paid taxes to, and only one-third actively supported independence. There was no consideration for those caught between rebellion and loyalty. But after the war everyone was American who wanted to be, and the rest either sucked it up or went to Canada or England.
One person’s Statist piece of filth is another one’s status quo ante wannabe.
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“The People’ are never of one mind. Most of “The People” don’t even know their own minds. Most of “The People” wouldn’t know what kind of government they want outside of some vague slogans that happen to be in fashion at the moment. Most of “The People” are ignorant of most of the laws of the land and yet want “law and order”. That is why all participatory democracies (direct voting for all things democratic instead of relying on a republican form – vote for those whom will represent the voters however vaguely) are nothing but mere mobs that trample the rights of any minority that gets in their way.
I merely point out that there is no cohesive movement in that group known as “The People”, that it is a most fractious group, and that the who question is subject to the rule of law. You, who are ignorant of the political, cultural, historical, and linguistic realities pine about idealized decisions. Then you call me a statist piece of filth as if that is proof positive of your argument’s correctness.
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Some of the protests became very confrontational, I’ll spare those and post a couple on public mood. Casoladas are a neighbourhood rallying where everyone makes noise from their homes spontaneously, usually at night.
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These actions by the Spanish government to use police to disrupt the referendum provides the perfect opportunity for the Catalan government to count the votes in secret.
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Ever notice how they always come in the middle of the night. They would never try this in the light of day. Be very worried when they do this in the middle of the day. Then their power will be absolute, just like the gestapo. First at night then finally in broad daylight.
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When every single resident is a welfare recipient, ‘anonymity’ has new value.
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And this is the Catalan anthem at one of the various demonstrations that took place.
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Catalans hail Franco’s troops triumphant entry in Barcelona (1939):
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I don’t doubt that. A lot of pro-Spanish in Cataluña will be keeping very quiet at the moment. Franco’s forces were the rebellion at the time, the UK and others tacitly supported his aims. Now it is a different picture unfolding, and we are still trying to figure who or what is really going on. Spain is on solid ground at constitutional level, but there is a quite different background of influences. I don’t have an answer to this story…something like Cataluña as own nation with Spanish monarch as head of state maybe… or not… arguments everywhere and the process is being used as an example for future EU political jurisdiction too. If you are Spanish there is no question and that is clear enough, but you have similar influence to Cataluña going on all over the country…I actually hope Spain leaves the euro over this and returns some discipline , but maybe that is not how its future is painted…who knows, for the Spanish to decide. I also think the referendum call has some legitimacy… but it should not have come to this. Que hacer.
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….And if you think about it, how much choice is given to people by referendum to leave the Euro or EU ? Do they get listened to when they actually achieve a vote (e.g. Greece)? There is endless hypocrisy…if you study the French revolution….representation….same arguments using different themes. Critical theory and nulification, divide and conquer, endless disputes….people.
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Its all counterproductive and falls into the hands of the separatists.
Have to wander who is making the decisions.
They’ll find themselves with many political prisoners that will act as rallying points for the future.
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Long recent history to how it arrived at this, not purposeful on Spain’s part as far as I know, combination of the two traditional opposed Spanish parties policies, Euro, EU etc., With the current PP their stance is stricter and they have little choice according to their doctrine. Putting the rest aside, when it comes to territorial integrity and physical control, they WITHOUT DOUBT will not cede. It is most of what they have left to actually uphold as their meaning. So they will march in with two cojones if that is what it takes. Catalan separatists know this, so there is surely a wider game…have to wonder who is taking THEIR decisions too, to be fair.
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“Political” prisoners? Does acting against the law make political prisoners? The Spanish Constitution was approved by a huge percentage of Spanish voters, highest in Catalonia, as it happens.
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@ Tillman – I’ll reply here as you addressed Mish.
What you are saying is close, but:
The PP will not agree to a referendum because it is anti-ethical to their view of Spain. Full stop.
There has been a long secessionist history, well before CUP or ERC etc.Catalan politics has moulded to the secessionist and /or republican idea, it does not lead it, it channels it and nurtures it, it does not create it . There are still national republican/left values at play in Spain also, hence e.g. Podemos, Colau. To the north of Cataluña – a republic. Andorra – co-principality with France.
For the actual true nature of Catalan politics, and Spanish political choices, I personally stay out of it as far as possible as it is very confused so you cannot help but fall foul somewhere , but don’t let that put anyone off speaking their mind.
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@Tillman, I replied to you but it is in moderation for whatever reason, should appear some time.
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John Adams said : “the American people have rebellion in their heart”. Berkeley Intifada leaders know best.
Comte de Vergennes (1717-1787) knew it from De Kalb ( NY subway station).
He cooked the freedom story to the people of France, to “revenge” the British who took over N. America, in the middle of one of those too many core European wars – and kicked out the French(not exactly). He conspired with Franklin to declare an independent state.
British fought the rebels and almost won, but US was saved by France, which sent an expedition force under Rochambeau, navy under de Grass (Steuben, Lafayette..) and together with Washington, they finished off the British in Yorktown.
US was born, but almost at the same time the leaders of France got their head chopped in the guillotine, in the name of freedom.
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Last night a crowd surrounded a building being raided by police…trashed the police vehicles parked outside…and waited…so the police decided it better they should wait inside the building and did not leave till early morning.
Today the port workers refuse to supply the police barrack ships, the budget is suspended by Spain for lack of accord, and there is a mass protest outside of where some protesters are detained….
http://www.ara.cat/politica/Centenars-persones-llibertat-detinguts-TSJC_0_1873612751.html
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As I’m following this story quite closely, with your permission Mish, and given that comments are about over, I’ll just use the free space to download news and anecdotal for anyone to get a better idea….
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This is supposedly one of the riot police boat accommodations, have read other comments that it is….
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How would this look if it were portrayed historically? These photos show a protest as you might read it if it had taken place 50 yrs ago…a bridge in a way to previous documentation that does exist.
https://mromeoruiz.wordpress.com/2017/09/21/catalunya-lliure-2017-09-20/
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Note Puigdemont is now calling for EU intervention for Spain not respecting EU rights charter….
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Pau de Vílchez Morag Pau de Vílchez Morag
@lendema
The all-party group on Catalonia of the Brittish Parliament calls for Spanish authorities to allow the referendum
http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/apg/
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Meanwhile the left in Spain joined to approve a July sentence in congress that sentences the PP for political use of the police force, with a few words to add given the current circumstances
http://www.publico.es/politica/congreso-dictamina-gobierno-creo-policia-politica-atacar-rivales.html
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Electoral college list just published
http://www.elnacional.cat/ca/politica/puigdemont-col-legis-votacio-referendum_193896_102.html
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Phew…I’ll leave it there for now with two updating links, will fill in some more in several hours time if there is anything to.
http://www.ara.cat/politica/escorcolls-guardia-civil-contra-referendum_12_1873132669.html
https://twitter.com/hashtag/1o?f=tweets&vertical=default&src=hash
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