Numerous sites keep posting stats that claim a majority in Catalonia want a vote but do not support independence.
I have stated those polls are old and likely wrong thanks to the pitiful tactics of prime minister Mariano Rajoy.
A new last-minute poll suggests I have this correct.
Please consider Huge upsurge in support for independence is revealed in world exclusive final Catalan poll.
A SENSATIONAL new poll which The National is publishing on the eve of the Catalan independence referendum shows an upsurge in support for independence that varies dramatically depending on whether or not Spain’s central government boycotts the vote.
The telephone poll was carried out over the last three weeks and completed on Thursday, but the results could not be published in Catalonia. They were released to The National yesterday.
Two scenarios were put to a sample of nearly 3300 voters: “With the current situation in Catalonia, with Spanish government and main Spanish political parties calling for a boycott of the referendum,” and “a referendum agreed with the Spanish authorities”.
Jordi Sanchez, president of the Catalan National Congress, welcomed the results and told The National: “This poll confirms there’s a majority of people that want to vote and will vote, and this can’t be stopped by any police or state of emergency.
Ok Rajoy, what are you going to do?
If there is a vote, the expected results are pretty clear.
The Spanish government claims most of the polling places are closed? The Catalonia government says the vote will take place and millions will show up.
Which side is correct?
We will find out within hours. Voting day has arrived in Spain.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
I gather that Rajoy’s ham-handed attempts to scare the Catalans into not voting has backfired enormously. Why am I not surprised?
just a gut feeling based on my read of human psychology, but Madrid’s action make a yes vote, more not less likely. Madrid may find their actions had the opposite effect.
Madrid royally messed up this time. The videos of today’s riot police beating up little old ladies and smashing ballot boxes are going viral.
It’s also going to have massive implications for CALexi
On behalf of rational Americans everywhere, I bid California farewell & Godspeed.
CAL exit. We can only wish.
Sure first put up a fence, stop all illegals migrating to the remaining US states. Stop the new citizens of California from leaving until they sort out citizenship with a one time choice. People who decide to remain citizens of California would be bought out of SS with a single lump payment.
Cut off all Federal support, Divide the US Debt by population and ensure to count the beloved illegals to and assign California it’s ‘fair share’. Have them pay full board for the water they get. And have them pay for all of the federal lands.
Something tells me California would not be so eager to leave.
Same deal for Spain, I am sure the people of Catalonia, would forget all about independence. If they had to take the equivalent settlements. Take their share of the debt. loose all Spanish pensions, or be bought out of all pensions with a fair payment according to their contributions.
I think people way underestimate the costs of being a “free” socialist country.
Tomorrow will be interesting!!
Spain claims it has disrupted the referendum.
“After a tumultuous 10 days that have seen Catalan government officials arrested, referendum websites blocked and millions of ballot papers seized, the Spanish government said it was confident it had dismantled the electoral apparatus.
On Saturday, Enric Millo, Madrid’s most senior representative in Catalonia, announced that police had sealed off 1,300 of the region’s 2,315 polling stations, while Guardia Civil officers acting on a judge’s orders had searched the HQ of the Catalan technology and communications centre, disabling the software connecting polling stations and shutting down online voting applications.
“These last-minute operations have allowed us to very definitively break up any possibility of the Catalan government delivering what it promised: a binding, effective referendum with legal guarantees,” he said.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/01/all-eyes-on-catalonia-as-referendum-day-arrives
What will the Catalans actually do tomorrow? Vote? Come out into the streets in the thousands? Or meekly submit and claim democracy lost?
If those number were to hold, “Si” would still win an outright majority of Catalan voters, even when including the abstentions (.83*.62 = .51). Probably should be taken with grain of salt, but if it shows anything its that Rajoy played the situation about as badly as oops. Oops!
Will be very interesting to follow tomorrow.
They voted out
I just hope the cops don’t start getting violent. You know how trigger-happy they can get.
Spanish cops (like those in most places) are not trigger happy.
That is right, but brutality is not unknown.
3pm local time, 300 injured ( mostly lightly) some rubber bullets, football matches called off ( oh no), and an ultra right march headed through town ( oh oh).
The Spanish prosecutor is accusing the Mossos of passivity, there are calls for Rajoy’s resignation, there are ultras saying they are on their own now, that the country has been betrayed, and international hand wringing and condemnation abounds…
It goes on.
Phew…glad you were right. National police massing like an army against the public can be trusted after all. They only shot rubber bullets into the crowds…injuries mostly minor Clearly no fascism here. Just cops doing their duty. Let’s give them all a big, glorious salute. “Heil Hitler!”. Sorry, wrong country. I should have said, “Viva Franco!”
The NFL boycott is another 80% favorite.
I remember when I was a boy and my father took me and one of my friends to a MLB game. The whole thing (tickets, burgers, soda, etc) was about a hundred bucks. Thousands of fathers did this, that made it a national past time.
Now, the same three people with the same food would be well over $500 for cheap seats — more than the price of a decent TV. Decent seats will run you a lot more.
That is why the MLB, and soon the overpaid nutcases in NFL, are losing ground. Add the stupid politics and political correctness that destroys the entertainment value….
Even if the police are evil (and I am not saying I agree with that) — but **IF** the police are evil, why are these millionaire players insulting soldiers that make $30K for a heck of a lot more danger? Why insult veterans? **IF** these NFL millionaires have a problem with the police, shouldn’t they protest the police, instead of an unrelated third party? Even if one agreed with their gripe, their protest doesn’t make any sense.
The NFL Nlelson ratings are down 11% from last year. The NFL favorability ratings fell from 30% on 09/21/ to 17% on 09/28. These idiots are costing their owners hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. For how long to you think the league will put up with that s$%*?
The owners better grow a set and fast. Time to drop the hammer on these morons.
What did Caesar do when citizens got fed up with bread & circuses? How did he restore the Pax Romana?
If the owners could play ball well enough that anyone cared to pay to watch them, I’m sure they would…. They’re mere concert promoters. While the players are Mick Jagger. Of course, both Mr. Jagger and NFL players are no longer what they used to be, as young people now consider them less relevant than some character in the video game they prefer wasting their time on…..
I’m more interested in how the MSM will cover this event. I’ll scan their coverage to get the gist of their narrative, then go to different alternative media sites that have independa
Yes, this is the first western modern confrontation on voting rights, I am watching how the press, politicians etc. stand on the theme, as it is sort of setting a precedent. So far the international msm seems to condemn the police action as violent, in Spain part of the press blames Catalan ( sometimes in combination with Spanish) politicians for this outcome.
Bloomberg coverage is anti vote. strongly anti vote
suggests most deep state press is same
all deep
state press seems anti vote
wapo
nyt
wsj
Yep, as I stopped following US msm a long time ago I’m in no position to figure out how they are spinning this, and to what objective, I’ll happily leave it to others to follow that detail. A lot of the press I do read “say the right thing at the right moment” but most have an agenda going all the same, and not always as seems.
So far today events have been relatively “light”, as if just a reminder of what means what for social digestion and reply. Maybe that is the new floor of modern politics… or maybe not.
Here is a clip of the Mossos standing to defend protestors/voters… does not show from who but says from Spanish police:
https://twitter.com/AltoyClaro1/status/914477759958745089
I’m interested in what the EU do or say whether si or no.
Soon, Spain and others will realise the Nation State inside the EU is a MIRAGE.
Rajoy is living in his own backward looking bubble. He and Spain don’t matter.
This will be even more stark when Macron achieves his great Franco-German merger that will be an authoritarian EU.
Those in the know are laughing at this show.
This is the danger, if nationalist Spain feels cornered or manipulated/betrayed/controlled.
The issues of sovereign borders and self-rule seldom fail to garner a great deal of attention.The American civil war did little to resolve the issue of whether people had the right to secede or withdraw formally from membership in a federal union, an alliance, or a political or religious organization and certainly should not be used as a template for a solution.
The bottom-line is that it is usually the politicians that refuse to give up control and this will not change. Borders are a creation of man and not visible to the birds flying above. Much bloodshed and many wars could be avoided if the issues of regime change or borders could be handled in a more rational and constructive way, More on this and the recent votes to secede in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2017/10/sovereign-borders-and-self-rule-again.html
Spanish are using tactics that the EU would condemn in Turkey and lead them to say Turkey has no place in the organisation. Beatings, Rubber Bullets, fascist chants in Madrid.
EU silence, no condemnation, no sanctions.
Meanwhile the UK has a democratic vote to leave – “UK must be punished.”
The hypocrisy of the Communo-Fascist EU knows no boundaries.
Comments?
EU waits for enough people to turn to it for its judgement.
The EU does seem to have been unusually quiet over the vote. I would just LOVE Junker to light the blue touchpaper by saying ‘this is a matter for Spain to deal with as it thinks appropriate’. The guy is just SO out of touch, I wouldn’t put it past him. Then the people of Catalunya will really know what the’ve got to contend with.
So far as the UK is concerned, I truly feel betrayed by T. May and it wouldn’t at all surprise me if there is a Conservative leadership bid within days now – perhaps imediately following the party conference. Not all Tories will be totally insensitive to the mood of the nation. The latest ‘giveaway’ on student fees is just another embarrassment and May couldn’t have played a more inept hand as PM if she had tried in every respect, but particularly wrt Europe. She has positively clutched defeat from the jaws of victory. The two year extension broke the camel’s back for me.
Boris ain’t my man; Moggy? My only thoughts of comfort are that leaving Europe has an unstoppable momentum and there is nothing that any leader or party can do to prevent it whether they like it or not. But never before have I known the political class to be so indifferent to the will of the people, and it seems that way across the whole of the Western world. They just don’t give a damn!
I don’t see an “unstoppable momentum” given the number of snakes and knaves in positions of power pulling levers and manipulating.
Trust none. Not one. None.
The electorate will only be listened too only if they pick-up pitchforks and ropes and should that happen the UK Military should back the people in exchange for a legislated Covenant after any purge.
Last time it was King vs Parliament in Civil War. Next there is every chance it’s People vs Parliament in Civil War seeing how many MPs voted against their own constituents.
Remove the House of Lords in return for a Federal meeting house for the UK, purge parliament and install a Government of National Unity for a period of five years, remove votes from all dual nationals and remove dual nationals from any position of power.
I expect the EU to start by telling ‘Porkies’?
After all Mr Juncker has never hidden his view that the compromises and deals being worked out in EU meetings or leaders or ministers need be protected from public scrutiny, by lies if necessary.
“When it becomes serious, you have to lie,” he said.
ZH has a collection of media on the police disruptions
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-01/fascism-shocking-footage-spanish-police-shooting-rubber-bullets-brutally-beating-pea
Catalan is ripe for a United Nations Peacekeeping Force. Perhaps Turkey and North Korea can lend soldiers.
Voting stations are closing here and there due to intervention, so it looks like it will go to questions of legitimacy. Catalan authorities are claiming over 50% over-all participation, the Spanish that it is a sham and procedure flawed ( voting lists etc.) .
So I think it goes back to public demonstrations now, it looks like Spain is waiting for Puigdemont to declare independence ( said 48hrs after referendum) and then they will arrest him on full charge of sedition.
How it seems at the moment….
“So I think it goes back to public demonstrations now, it looks like Spain is waiting for Puigdemont to declare independence”
And that is exactly what Spain will do. Not sure if Puigdemont will declare independence because I don’t think he wants to go to jail.
The goal of the Spanish government was to show that the referendum was illegal and its outcome carries no mandate whatsoever.
The ball is now back to Puigdemont. My thinking is if he declares independence he goes to jail if he doesn’t he is remove from government by CUP and the communist.
I don’t think he has a choice now, after a result is announced he will declare independence, probably sooner than later, under the momentum. It gets dangerous then I think.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLD5QW3WsAA3HGJ.jpg
https://twitter.com/SERCatalunya/status/914499720718020608
SPAIN WON CATALUNYA WILL NEVER BE INDEPENDANT
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THINK ABOUT IT PURE LOGICS REGARDLESS YOU ARE IN FAVOUR OR AGAINST
PURE BASIC LOGICS JUST DO THE MATHS FOR BEGINNERS AS YOU SAY
IF A REGION SUCH AS CATALONIA FOR INSTANCE FROM A SOVEREIGN EUROPEAN COUNTRY / STATE SUCH AS SPAIN WOULD BECOME INDEPENDANT THEN WHAT ELSE ? SCOTLAND WOULD BECOME INDEPENDANT FROM THE UK OR OTHER
REGIONS FROM FRANCE OR BAYERN FROM GERMANY WHO KNOWS ??
WOULD YOU LIKE CALIFORNIA TO BECOME AN INDEPENDANT STATE WITH FRISCO AS A CAPITAL AND BERNIE S AS PRESIDENT OF A LEFTIST STATE
WOUL D YOU LIKE ANTIFAS TO TAKE POWER IN NYC OR WASHINGTON ?
BELIEVE ME YOU WON T SUCCEED IN DESTROYING OUR EUROPEANS STATES
YOU D LIKE TO WEAKEN US BUT IT WILL JUST SPARK ANTIAMERICANISM
AND SUPPORT FOR RUSSIA
fox finally went to some video clips of Barcelona
lasted 5 seconds, cut off, and then went to 2 minutes of commercials
after commercial break – went to local NYC story
Fox version of story is the voters were bad guys
Good thing we have the internet, so we can learn the truth.
What is happening in Catalonia now is the most important story in the world, yet the U.S. Media is largely ignoring it.
That is proof that our U.S. Media is nothing more than a propaganda arm of the ‘Deep State’.
Remember what happened with dixie country during the civil war exactly the same as in Spain
The south wanted its independance and supported slavery but Abraham Lincoln and the Yankees defeated the south to protect black people from slavery and for the USA to remain a strong united country so God bless America
One was a fight to keep slavery
The other was a fight for the right of self-determination
It is sad you cannot see the difference!
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