A sniper, Stephen Craig Paddock, unleashed a hail of bullets on an outdoor country music festival from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel in Vegas hotel.
Paddock killed at least 58 people as tens of thousands of concertgoers screamed and ran for their lives. This was the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
[protected-iframe id=”9f83f07d602c95898995dd339ca7ae20-18340115-18946391″ info=”https://www.bloomberg.com/api/embed/iframe?id=e8e69d3a-79c8-48c8-b6ba-02185eff24f6″ width=”500″ height=”300″ frameborder=”0″]
Bloomberg reports Sniper in High-rise Hotel Kills At Least 58 in Las Vegas.
SWAT teams using explosives stormed the gunman’s hotel room in the sleek, gold-colored glass skyscraper and found he had killed himself, authorities said. He had as many as 10 guns with him, including rifles, they said.
In the Mideast, the Islamic State group claimed responsibility for the attack and said the gunman was “a soldier” who had converted to Islam months ago. But it provided no evidence.
Country music star Jason Aldean was performing Sunday night at the end of the three-day Route 91 Harvest Festival in front of a crowd of more than 22,000 when the gunman opened fire from inside the 44-floor Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino across the street.
The gunman was identified as Stephen Craig Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nevada. He had checked into the hotel room on Thursday, authorities said. Police said he was a retiree with no criminal record in the Nevada county where he lived.
In an address to the country, President Donald Trump called the attack “an act of pure evil” and added: “In moments of tragedy and horror, America comes together as one. And it always has.” He ordered flags flown at half-staff.
Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said authorities believe it was a “lone wolf” attack. And the U.S. Homeland Security Department said there was no “specific credible threat” involving other public venues in the U.S.
Fake News Goes Viral
I seldom report on these stories when I first see them, preferring to wait for some facts. As often happens, fake news went viral.
As law enforcement and news organizations raced to piece together what happened during the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history Sunday night in Las Vegas, web denizens less wedded to the truth rushed in to provide details of their own—which quickly went viral.
Links to the 4chan website that falsely identified the shooter and called him a leftist and Democratic supporter were showing up on the top of Google search results, according to tweets by Buzzfeed News reporter, Ryan Broderick. Conservative writer Joe Hoft pounced, publishing and then retracting an article about the misidentified man. Police later identified a different person, Stephen Paddock, as the shooter.
A few hours later, searches for the same name were showing articles debunking the 4chan post and cataloguing the trail of viral fake news after the shooting. Once police identified Paddock, accounts on Twitter and Facebook began claiming he was part of the leftist group Antifa.
A spokeswoman for Google wasn’t able to immediately provide a comment.
ISIS Claim Responsibility
At 9:30 central, Bloomberg reported Islamic State Claims Las Vegas Mass Shooting.
Without providing any evidence to support the claim, the Islamic State group on Monday said the gunman in the mass shooting in Las Vegas was “a soldier” from its ranks who had converted to Islam months ago.
Authorities have yet to identify a motive for the shooting, and said initially there was no evidence of any connection to international terrorism.
The extremist group has a history of exaggerated or false claims, including earlier this year, when it claimed an attack on a casino in the Philippines that turned out to have been a botched robbery carried out by a heavily indebted gambling addict.
FBI Says Las Vegas Shooter Had No Connection to International Terrorist Group
At 10:44, Bloomberg reported FBI Says Las Vegas Shooter Had No Connection to International Terrorist Group.
The headline was the story. There was no other information.
Gun Shares Rally
In the aftermath of the news, Gun-Maker Stocks Rally.
Shares of gun makers rallied Monday, in the wake of what has been described as the deadliest mass shooting on U.S. soil.
Smith & Wesson parent American Outdoor Brands Corp.’s stock AOBC, +3.44% jumped 3.8% in midday trade toward a three-week high, Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc. shares RGR, +2.82% climbed 3.9% and Vista Outdoor Inc. shares VSTO, +2.35% ran up 3.0% toward a 6-week high.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
Maybe he just really, really, really didn’t like country music?
Bumpfire!
Go to 3 min.
Video sums it up really.
America is addicted to easy access guns and this is unlikely to stop.
Sorry to see the tragedy.
An addicted armed madhouse.
This madness is made in America.
Chicks with guns!
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7wb6M59LWAhVDMyYKHaD5BToQyCkIKjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DyryV-5TfwvE&usg=AOvVaw2VsxLJz_TD3L8gvt-_AHWW
We have a mass shooting every 9 out of 10 days. What does this say about America?
guaranteed he is a retired gov’t employee
Are we sure he didn’t work for the Post Office?
Are we sure Paddock actually did the shooting?
Why? Because his body was found in a hotel room after police kicked in the door to a room registered to him? No way he was overpowered by actual (team?) of assailants and then murdered on the spot as they exited?
Mandalay Bay must have footage of lobby activity over last few days. Anybody actually see Paddock do anything? The rush to judgment is amazing. Then I keep hearing, “it was planned in advance, it wasn’t spontaneous action of a disgruntled gambler”. Yes, it WAS planned, the question is by who?
Again, who SAW what took place? Not who discovered the scene afterwards.
We lost a family friend who was murdered in a strong arm breakin at his Las Vegas home. It took LVPD all of an hour to declare it a suicide, despite obvious effects of a struggle present throughout the whole scene. This whole event will be airbrushed to make it look like whatever they want it to.
Paddock is the perfect patsy.
Yeah, I thought the exact same thing after reading the Drudge headline article Monday morning. It seems way too neat and also seems like more than one person had to plan, purchase, stage, all the weapons. Plus, in addition to the infinite “Russians hacked the election” investigation with zero evidence, the FBI still has no evidence that any secrets were obtained by hackers to Hillary’s unsecure server full of highest level national secrets easily accessible 24/7/365 the entire time she was SecState. How the hell they know so very quickly the shooter had no ties to terrorists is astonishing but it also might be true. Maybe it was all done by this nut-case but something about it doesn’t smell quite right.
Some of the guns were verified to have been purchased by him.
Verified by whom?
Does anybody see the fake news angle in the report by the FBI that the Vegas shooter “positively” had no ISIS connection ….??
It only took 12 hours for the FBI to make this “positive determination” yet the FBI has been searching for 15 months for any link of Trump’s campaign to the Russians.
And the FBI still hasn’t make a “positive determination” on that ……
VERY ASTUTE.
Yeah, we hear/read rumors non-stop about Trump and the Russians, and they have 15 attorneys looking into it……still can’t find a single thing, but in 12 hours the FBI says this guy was acting alone.
Interesting nonsense.
After Mueller was brought they put an end to the steady leak of information. Trump doesn’t talk about firing him because for the time the heat is off him. They already know about Russian meddling the question is there a direct connection? Even without a direct connection the Congressional imperative will be closing the door on this kind of interference, which may involve some government restrictions on the internet.
“… but in 12 hours the FBI says this guy was acting alone” – which is them being quicker or slightly slower than in the case of Oswald?
Islamic country lady “friend” or something… stranger things have happened… cannot close a door to investigation just like that.
https://twitter.com/rcallimachi
Looks at ISIS claims… as NYT she is likely to be more cautious on her view, which when looking for evidence for a theory to be dismissed is not a problem maybe.
Oops – I only meant to put in the link to click on… not her feed to be displayed !
This is very suspicious at best. I’m gonna watch other news stories to see what is being buried.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter actually was a leftist and a Democratic supporter. He certainly fits the profile.
right or left, it doesn’t matter. we need to do more to prevent these mass shootings.
BS response, BS attitude.
Absolutely sufganiyah. We should be encouraging more mass shootings!
Where did I say that? I was responding to “right or left, it doesn’t matter.”.
I can guarantee you that if there were pictures of the shooter with a MAGA hat or any indication that he had expressed any right wing opinions in the past, it would suddenly matter a lot, all news would be focusing on that and the shill “Conscience …” would be writing about right wing violence.
It does matter if the shooter was a progressive liberal because most mass shooters are progressive liberals. It matters because progressive liberals insist that the rest of us should not have a right to defend ourselves against violence with a gun. It matters because most criminals self-identify as liberal, progressive, socialist, communist minded.
“right or left, it doesn’t matter. we need to do more to prevent these mass shootings.”
There ya go. Maybe we could legislate morality,’er sumptn’ ?
Abstaining from spending “our” lives playing “sardines in can” would go a long way…..
I think this shooting pushed me over the edge. we keep seeing these stories and they feel like they are happening more frequently and more people die. we don’t seem to be solving anything except expressing sympathy and waiting for the next violent act. maybe the advocates are right and we need to clamp down on the gun rules
I certainly fail to see how more guns would have prevented this.
Could anything have prevented it?
No, nothing could have prevented it as far as we know right now about the shooter’s history. The insane man cleverly made sure he could not be taken down for a while, barricaded as he was in the hotel room.
“The insane man cleverly made sure he could not be taken down for a while, barricaded as he was in the hotel room.”
He was undone by the smoke detector in the room. He was not clever enough to remove the 9V battery to disable the alarm?
Timothy McVeigh was conveniently caught on a routine traffic stop after fleeing the Murrah Bldg. in Oklahoma City.
Lee Oswald was in a movie theater he entered through a side door that was left propped open for him. Yet he was found within hours of JFK’s death? No, there are no perfect crimes, but neither are there perfect investigations, yet pieces will fall into place pretty easily, don’t they?
Licketty split, a perpetrator is taken down and a narrative is established. In Paddock’s case with seemingly no motive whatsoever nor any previous hostile acts on his part.
No, more gun laws wouldn’t prevent this kind of criminal act, any more than laws against driving on sidewalks would prevent some nut from running down pedestrians.
This was the 273rd mass shooting this year. What other country not at war has this many mass shootings? I am all for owning guns but why does a person need to own and AR15 or other rifle. These military rifles were made for one thing and that is to kill people.
If there was no need for AR15s, they would not exist.
Looking at it one way, the world may well have been a nicer place absent some of the advanced weapons we have today. But on the other hand, advanced weapons are all that allows so called advanced (and wealthy) societies, to prevent the likes of machete wielding Hutus by the millions from running them over.
The exact same force multiplier inherent to modern weapons, that allows a relatively small number of first worlders to stand guard over populations of largely defenseless worker ants, are what also allows a relatively small number of nutjobs to inflict harm on many of those same defenseless ones.
When it comes to nukes, the stakes are even higher. One one hand, they really do cause some serious carnage. On the other, they have kept peace in the West (and East) for a longer period than ever before….
semi-automatic weapons are too easily converted to fully automatic. we need a ban. and for those that buy a weapon legally a permit that must be renewed and part of that process is a background check and a psychological evaluation from a health care provider. also the current rules exclude background check at trade shows and private sales.
nothing is perfect but if we can reduce the occurrence of such acts its worth it. saying nothing can be done is a cop out
Good work, shill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack
That’s stupid. I have almost everything at hand to make my own . Never looked into it but if they tried to ban them I’d be the first to start making plans.
“semi-automatic weapons are too easily converted to fully automatic. we need a ban”
really? mind telling us how exactly? or at least what your 1st hand experience is in these “easy conversions”.
Lastly…mind rattling off ALL those mass killing over the past say 30 years that have been committed with such “easy conversion” guns? crickets…exactly.
Look people ….pistols are whats used in murders. Inner city youth of a certain persuasion …with cheap pistols. They stack the bodies .
Thje gangsters arent using assault rifles (semi or full auto).
Go google FBI homicide stats and see for yourself.
I swear its ignorant comments like this and the media that have prevented us from having reasonable gun laws to start with….when you cant even get the bare facts and data presented clearly.
Not allowing people on anti depressants/psychoactive/opiods to have guns could help.
outlawing those drugs might help even more
+ 100
Yup. Drug wars have such a great track record, after all…………
This is suppose to be an economic venue, not a gun debate.
If you think the damage that one pissed off 64 year old white guy did in Vegas is bad…just wait!
When the banks go down next time and the retirements of 100’s of thousands of 60+ year old white guys vaporize, THEN you will see carnage.
And you will wish like hell you had a fully automatic weapon.
Think that’s overboard….read about Marie Antoinette.
THAT will be U G L Y ……
Having less guns wouldn’t have prevented it either. The shooter had access to firearms that most people don’t, plus he had explosives in his car or home according to some reports (a decent bunch of homemade IEDs would have had a much higher casualty count in a packed concert than even a full auto). Plus he owned 2 planes (a kamikaze dive into the concert would also kill/injure many hundreds). Failing that just drive a big truck at high speed into the concert grounds in the manner of Nice France.
The concertgoers that survived are lucky that he decided not to use one of his planes as Neal mentioned. The carnage of a light plane with full fuel crashed into the crowd on a low angle approach would have been much more horrific than the shooting rampage.
With the way things are going, take the advice of another poster on this thread and don’t play the role of a sardine in a can.
Yes, we need to “clamp down on the gun rules”. We also need to clamp down on truck rules. And why are home made bombs not regulated?
home made bombs are not regulated because they are already illegal.
Thanks, I guess, you have obviously missed my sarcastic tone.
Hey, Conscience: If YOU were KING, what exactly would you do – and how exactly will that work to keep Criminals from getting some of the millions of such weapons available worldwide?
Seriously. No more ‘laws’ that cannot possibly keep guns from criminals….who don’t listen to any law, anyway?
What do you propose that will work? Serious question. I would like a serious answer.
Do what Australia did. Worked like a charm. Hasn’t been a mass killing in a couple of decades. But you will need to research that for yourself. Though nothing is perfect of course.
Took me 30 seconds to find 14 mass killings since ’96. Five of those with guns.
5 in Australia in 21 years vs over 6000 in the US in that time period. Pretty clear to me.
Realist, are you counting every gang member that that manages to hit more than one person per incident?
He said none, I found 14, and if I count like you did, I’m sure I can boost that number.
Maybe we can do a little experiment. How about we transplant enough ghetto neighborhoods from places like Chicago, Baltimore, D.C. , Oakland, etc. until you have the same percentage of black folks we do, and see what happens to your crime statistics, not that they are that nice to start with.
Australia is a bad comparison, they do not have the complicated demographics & history of the U.S. It’s like when people try to compare the US to Sweden and Norway in many areas, which bugs the crap out of me. Better comparison to the USA is Brazil, they have a similar history and mixed demographics, and have a much higher murder rate then USA.
Not trying to pick on anyone, just pure statistics, go look them up on the FBI crime by race stats. Black males are about 6% of the US population and commit 52% of ALL the homicides. Hispanics commit a disproportionate amount too per their share of the overall population. If you back out blacks and hispanics, murders fall by probably at least 75%-80% in the U.S. So just looking a whites, asians and others…the USA is not as far off Aus, Canada, Europe as you would think in terms of murders and violent crime. Still a lot higher, but not crazy higher.
The mass shootings get a lot of press, but are a tiny number of the overall homicides, especially over a 10 year period.
We need good Gun Laws:
1) Illegal to shoot somebody
2) Make machine guns illegal
3) Make it illegal to shoot a gun out of a Hotel Window
4) Shooting each person gets an additional term in jail
5) Make it illegal to shoot into a crowd.
All of these would have prevented this event since these Laws would have stopped him. Good sensible GUN LAWS will prevent gun violence.
Why don’t you read up on the laws before posting. It’s illegal to own a fully automatic weapon without an FFL license in which to receive one comes with heavy FBI background checks. It’s too early to tell what happened or was he already on an FBI watch list. And I can’t think of many ways to kill large crowds without a firearm.
Use your imagination on how to kill large crowds (or watch any number of movies). IEDs are easy to make and can be put in place (underground) prior to a concert, or put in the road crews equipment. Or use a Goodyear blimp full of flechettes (that was in the 1977 movie Black September). Or just use poison gas (Goldfinger). Instead of banning guns they should just ban movies.
He was being sarcastic. All of that is already illegal, except for owning an automatic rifle but that is heavily regulated and restricted.
Good Gun Laws (as distinct from gun usage laws) suggest your no. 1) point should have been: –
Illegal to own, trade in or possess any gun, ammunition or gun accessory.
People do not easily kill people, but people with guns do so everyday.
People with guns also prevent themselves from becoming crime victims every day.
It is illegal for criminals to own guns, and yet, they do ~
Surprising that in those tens of thousands of country music fans, one of them didn’t take out their gun and kill this guy.
John Sellers, the dude was 300+ meters away, in a 32 floors up in a hotel room, firing from a concealed position. At night. Nobody with a pistol is going to be making that shot. Several police officers were there too, at least two are dead, and they didn’t return fire either.
SWAT didn’t manage it either.
@therequimen
+1
That is one tough situation to be in. It would be interesting to read insights by military personell who have come under similar fire in Iraq or Afghanistan, about how they would deal with it. And how they would rate their odds. Or perhaps how long they would have estimated it would take them to get the situation under some sort of control.
But even then, even if country music concert goers carried ARs, practiced with them and remained dead sober at concerts in Vegas, they still can’t be as liberal about returning fire in the direction of a major hotel, as soldiers can in Sadr City….. At least from an American viewpoint, even if civilian Iraqis may not fully agree with that assessment.
Not piling oneself on top of others, really does seem to be the simplest way of reducing the odds of falling victim to this kind of carnage. Very few terrorists are likely to waste their moment in the sun shooting up, running over, blowing up nor crashing jetliners into isolated Idaho homesteads…..
Pretty sad that Centurion posted his sarcastic comment about gun laws more than 2 hours ago, listing 5 laws “needed” that are already laws, and no one seemed to notice. Some people seem to think he was serious!
It has been said at length that there is no comment so absurd that it cannot be taken seriously. Sarcasm, while obvious to some, is completely beyond some people.
Anyone determined to break the law will do so irrespective of the law.
A number of people were mown down by a white truck driven at them.
Some idiot suggested using trucks as weapons should be made illegal as a specific law.
I hope this man is determined to have a mental health issue because if he was normal God help us all.
Thoughts and prayers for everyone impacted by this act.
We have enough laws on the books . The prisons are filled .
Even with laws in place, people still find a way to break them, and these shooters usually end up taking their own life before “justice” is dealt.
Go back, way back to 1966 at Texas University Tower and Charles Whitman. It was determined that Whitman’s motive was, well… there was no motive, but he did have a brain tumor. So far we don’t have Paddock’s autopsy, but in review of his past this seems to follow much of the same pattern. We do have a more recent case of a brain tumor maybe causing millions of deaths world wide…. his name is John McCain.
His description doesn’t match the profile of the Antifa but as I understand it that is the meme the CIA wants to get out, Jim Rickards posted it first I think, and he is their mouthpiece, in exchange for allowing him to publish information taken from their studies for profit.
Why would gun maker stock go up? Even if you had a gun how would you defend yourself against that kind of attack? Maybe the gun sales are expected to be made to copy cats?
I’m Canadian and I just don’t get it.
We just had a major terror attack up here in Edmonton. Some Somali refugee stabbed a cop and then jumped into a U-Haul truck and ran into a crowed of people injuring 4.
You could tell he was a recent refugee because he didn’t say sorry afterward.
Not sure what would have happened if he had acquired an automatic weapon and figured out how to get the safety off.
And I thought it was Democrats that generally want stricter gun control?
What is a Somali doing in Canada?
“Why would gun maker stock go up?”
Hillary wasted no time attacking the NRA. Leftist political attacks on gun ownership drive up gun sales in response.
Hmmm…
Sell guns to crazy people.
Crazy people use guns to kill normal people.
Normal people run out and buy more guns.
Profit!
Not just”crazy” people. “Other” people. Once one guy has a gun, anyone who doesn’t, is Friday to the gun wielder’s Robinson. Guns, not physical strength nor superior intellect, is why some men came to America to enjoy it’s freedoms, while others came in chains.
In military matters, it is generally more costly to attack than defend. But the defender’s advantage isn’t that big. So he can’t let the capability differential get too far out of hand, before he too joins the rank of the ones in chains.
Hence, once you sell guns to one guy, you can pretty much rest assured you’ll get to sell them to “everyone else” as well.
I met some Somalis in Minneapolis. Rudest people I ever met.
“Why would gun maker stock go up?”
Because the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. Good people are more & more realizing that, as society collapses. Between opioids and people promoting crises to take advantage of them (Saul Alinsky), we have got trouble in River City.
I think regardless of his claimed motivations, we KNOW who is at fault here, do we NOT?
Let’s ask Rachel Maddow…..
Why go to Maddow when you can tap into the nation’s biggest ass hat:
Hillary Clinton ✔ @HillaryClinton
Las Vegas, we are grieving with you—the victims, those who lost loved ones, the responders, & all affected by this cold-blooded massacre.
Follow
Hillary Clinton ✔@HillaryClinton
The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots.
Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get.
10:03 AM – Oct 2, 2017
18,991 18,991 Replies 36,651 36,651 Retweets 97,626 97,626 likes
As I said on another board, the weapon he used sounded (on the admittedly bad quality cell phone videos available online) like an M249 SAW – a 5.56 mm belt fed weapon that resembles the older and heavier 7.62 mm M60. It uses 200 round belts that would explain the longer fire rates and the longer pauses between reloads. And as a “suppression” weapon – meant to put up a wall of lead while the fire team moves – it’s not very accurate.
Google Maps shows it’s about 500 meters by ground from the hotel to the site of the concert. He was 32 stories in the air which means between 275 and 375 feet – given it’s a hotel and has a casino/lobby and probably higher ceilings I’m going to guess 375 which is roughly 115 meters. All of which means he was about 515 meters from his targets. Unless my math is off – I was never very good at doing it in my head.
The M249 is at the edge of it’s effective point target range at around 600 meters – and that’s with a trained operator behind the sights.
AN AK in 7.62 or M4/16 in 5.56 would have given much fewer rounds per magazine and required many more stops to reload and their effective point target range is just at or less than 500 meters.
However, someone would have to be a very serious gun nut to get their hands on an M249 on the open market.
And they’re saying he’s a regular guy who just went haywire…
I doubt he had a M249, they are incredibly rare, and any owner of them would not part lightly with them. Think something like $60k+ for one. That figure is probably low fyi. He could have got a M-60 for $50k, or M2 .50 cal for less than that. Most likely is that he had a bumpfire stock.
As for effective range, those figures are for military engagements. 5.56 is lethal out to about 1300 meters. You don’t need good optics, or to be a marksmen to successfully, “engage” a well lit, tightly packed crowd of 22,000 people at night.
+1 . THIS ^^^^
M60 price ? I own one…$35k-$55k .
M249 ? $125,000 -$250,000 . I wish I owned one. Very rare.
Bump stock or Echo trigger like conversion device? $500 . Add that to a $1,000 AR15 and there you have it.
Ding ding – You got it!
Bump Fire
How loud are these weapons being fired, in a hotel room ? Would people in nearby rooms report the noise to the front desk ? The shooter fired for 10 minutes per the news. No one in the hotel reported the loud noise ?
Given the shoddy construction that passes for even “Luxury” hotel standards in the US these days, the guys in the room next door would very much be aware that their next door neighbor was conducting a war…..
But what could anyone realistically do? Would you have stormed into a warzone based on sound alone? Even hotel security would at most block of the area to prevent anyone from accidentally wandering into one. 10 minutes is not a long time to formulate and act on a plan in a situation like this.
Las Vegas Metro did go inside Mandalay Bay and was escorted by security to the room. The gunman fired thru the door and hit the security officer in the leg. The officers moved back and called for SWAT. People who were on the floor near the area took cover in their bathtubs until police led them from the area.
Definitely 100% NOT a M2 .50 cal. The rate of fire was too fast and not loud enough. Plus hauling a M2 setup thru the hotel would be a major ordeal…could be done, sure…but dang. That’s a lot of work.
I sure hope I’m right and it’s not a large full auto beltfed. That would be unprecedented in scope of $/effort/skill/planning involved.
Yea, I wasn’t suggesting he used a .50 or M60. If he had, the death toll would have been insane. He could have linked up 10000 rounds of ammo had he wanted to.
Scary thing about this guy is that he could have done something like that. He had the money, the time, clean record. That might have been the end for full auto period. 🙁
I’m just going by memory based on the sounds from the videos. I’m no longer “in the game” so to speak and my memory is admittedly not what it used to be. As soon as I heard it my brain said “SAW” – that’s all I’m saying.
And please re-read: “Someone would have to be a very serious gun nut…” Yes, they are expensive – and hard to come by – which is why I said that.
And both lethal and effective ranges are based on testing with either “best case” scenarios or a trained operator behind the sights.
That angle, that distance, that mental pressure… a “he just snapped” type of guy is spraying and praying and would be lucky to keep 5% of his rounds inside the target area no matter what “devices” he’s using to gain a “fully automatic” rate of fire.
One other thing:
The chances this guy “just snapped” are really slim…
How long in advance would he need to get a corner suite on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay for 4 days – during this concert? Does anyone believe he could have just booked it the other day? Could he have gotten an “inside” room or suite on Priceline or Orbitz? Probably. But getting that suite likely required some advance planning.
There was no “snap” involved. Yes, he was most definitely broken, but over an extended period of time. What he did took planning.
For all those bemoaning his access to guns…which regardless of quantity, he was only able to fire one at a time, we should thank God he did not settle on something much more deadly…and without getting into specifics, we all KNOW there are most definitely more lethal mass murdering “technologies” available. We hear about them all the time, even though most are classified as “accidents”. He was a licensed pilot. What possibilities can we extrapolate from that?
I disagree with this assessment.
I’ll bet you a nickel it wasnt a beltfed machine gun such as a SAW or 240 or M60.
You have any idea of what a legal transferable ATF registered 249 goes for ? Well over $125,000. And there are about a dozen of them in civilians hands- collectors, not owned by mass murdering psychopaths.
In fact legal Machine are quite rare and VERY expensive. The standard ole “AK47” or “M16”? Try $20,000 – $30,000 for legal registered ones owned by civilians (not dealers, not PD).
I believe it to me a guy with either an illegally modified semi-auto AK or AR + use of several 75 rnd -100 rnd drum magazines. Maybe setup on a mount, I dont know. Another alternative is use of a legal device attached or within a semi auto firearm resulting in near-full auto fire. This would include a slidefire, echo trigger, binary trigger, hand cranks, and whatnot–all legal by ATF and not considered machine guns.
The cadence and pitch of the rounds sounds more like AK47 than AR15 to me. But that was from limited vids I saw/listened to.
The range was about 450 yards…so definitely in rifle caliber long range…not pistol caliber and not 22 LR of course. 556 or 7.62 rounds.
Certainly a bunch of people involved already KNOW what exactly was used…I wish they would share that knowledge to cut down on speculation. And of course the anti-gun crowd is having a hey day. This was a terrible act. I hate to see gun rights for 300M Americans thrown under the bus bc of this evil moron. The other 99.999% of gun owners will certainly lose out here. Gun rights were afforded to us by the constitution as last resort protection against a tyrannical govt if one ever got into power. It was never about hunting. It was to maintain armed independent populace. But I digress.
The shooters brother said he wasnt a “avid gun guy”. If thats true then there’s no way it was a legal machine gun or a beltfed of any type. One must possess much greater than average gunsmith how-to in order to convert semi beltfeds to full auto- practically impossible for a layman/non machinist.
I have in depth 1st hand experience with machine guns.
+1, agree 100%.
“The cadence and pitch of the rounds sounds more like AK47 than AR15 to me.”
Yes, I just compared the audio from the shooting with a AK47 firing from a 100 round drum magazine on YouTube and they sound identical. Many more than 30 rounds are fired by the perp without reloading, so I suspect he used a 100 round AK-47 drum magazine. Also, at his apparent range, an AK47 round would be much more deadly than an AR round.
Maybe instead of 300 million Americans losing their gun rights we can just try and keep them out of the hands of people with psychological issues? Perhaps require background checks looking for certain characteristics. Not sure if anyone is willing to make that compromise though. And certainly it wouldn’t fix all these types of problems, but maybe enough that the anti-gun folks wouldn’t get enough power to destroy everyone’s rights.
And interestingly the second amendment was not designed to “maintain an armed independent populace”, it was designed to protect the individual states from being overthrown by a tyrannical federal government. Which is also why the Constitution requires Congress to renew funding for the standing army every two years. There was never any question that the individual states couldn’t regulate the sale and ownership of fire arms. And they all did.
That was undone by the 14th amendment after the Civil War. The Federal government by that time had overthrown the governments of the Southern states and gave all Americans federal rights over state rights. So the 2nd amendment now applied to the people, not the states.
Thank you Jon. I really appreciate you allowing me to still defend myself. Admittedly though, if American’s only defense against violent attack would be to RUN, we might be healthier…..CARDIO. Remember to zigzag when you run.
Taking cellphone soundtracks for what they are, my first impression was the weapon in the clip I watched was of a heavier caliber than 5.56 due to the sound and slower rate of fire than an M16 type weapon. It really sounded like the old Tommy gun. The media did get a chance to be correct in calling it an automatic weapon. Prayers for the people affected by this tragedy.
The 249 has a slower rate of fire than the 16/4 and is louder as well but not as loud as a 60.
And unless I’m mis-remembering a Thompson wouldn’t have the range.
The 45ACP round is lethal out to nearly a mile, as is a 22LR. When fired into a crowd where accuracy and effectiveness is not an issue there will be fatalities.
Tommy guns (i own one) have MUCH slower rate of fire than whats in the videos…and .45 would be a crappy round for a 450 yard shot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack
Sad, Sad day in America. True Evil took the day, today.
Evil DOES exist.
In a nation of 330M with so much untreated mental illness I’m surprise this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often.
It’s impossible to live 64 years without leaving a trail. I’m very surprised people aren’t coming out of the woodwork with stories about this guy.
His GF must know the rest of the story.
It is possible for a person to fly totally under the radar, especially someone just a bit younger than me who is not prone to sharing their every thought and activity on social media.
His GF may be the rest of the story.
I think he was just a patsy. This attack was done by experts.
Absolutely. Official version doesn’t pass the smell test, what a shock. This operation had organizational support.
Agreed. I’m thinking some major gun manufacturers were behind it. Note the stock price surge.
Cui bono
Convincing interview with local TV station media:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/861252/Las-Vegas-shooting-latest-news-Mandalay-Bay-Route-91-Marilou-Danley
One woman, who was at the Route 91 music event, claimed an unidentified woman had told other concert-goers they were “all going to die” after pushing her way to the front of the venue.
The witness, 21, told local news: “She had been messing with a lady in front of her and telling her she was going to die, that we were all going to die.
“They escorted her out to make her stop messing around with all the other people, but none of us knew it was going to be serious.”
She described the lady as Hispanic. The lady was escorted from the venue along with a man.
The unnamed witness, who was attending the event on her 21st birthday, described the pair as short, both around 5 ft 5ins to 5ft 6ins tall, and looked like “everyday people”.
She added she and her friends had just made it back to their hotel room when the gunfire started.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/452117/based-early-reports-las-vegas-shooting-very-very-strange
From that article:
Vegas Shooter’s Dad, Patrick Benjamin Paddock, Was a Convicted Bank Robber Who Escaped Federal Prison, Tried to Run Down FBI Agents With His Car
http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/02/patrick-benjamin-paddock-vegas-shooters
Also:
Fully automatic rifles are already banned and the ones that were grandfathered are *very* expensive and difficult to get.
From the Reason article, regarding the shooter’s father: “While in prison, Paddock was apparently diagnosed as suicidal and psychopathic.” Like father, like son.
Yep, it’s somewhat genetic. I await news that he was prescribed SSRIs, too:
SSRI Stories – Antidepressant Nightmares
https://ssristories.org/
On Youtube, a BBC show, title given just in case this video disappears due to copyright violations:
A Prescription for Murder (SSRIs) – Panorama – July 2015 (HD)
Fox reporting the guns were converted AR15s + drum mags …for whatever that is worth.
to convert an ar15 to M16 ( semi to full basically) one would have to have a jig and basic gun skills to drill a very specific precise hole in the receiver. This act alone constitutes “making of a machine gun” which has been illegal (for civilians to produce and own )since may 19, 1986 BTW. Then add a M16 trigger control group.
Prior to that date all such machine gun production required a $200 tax stamp and major background check, etc. Machine guns made legally and registered with ATF prior to 1986 were grandfathered in for future civilian ownership BUT no new machine guns could be produced for civilian use since then. In other words the supply of ALL machine guns able to be owned legally by civilians has been fixed , frozen in time, since May 19, 1986….and even then upon each buy/sell of these grandfathered machine guns, each requires another $200 stamp and 6 mo-12 mo background check by ATF/FBI who must approve the transfer. So at any point in time the ATF had a record of CURRENT ownership of all approx 175,000 full auto registered firearms in the nation.
Thus that $500 AR15 back then now costs upwards of $20,000 and ALL are basically antiques….and collectibles…and therefore are NEVER used in crimes like this.
As far as ILLEGAL machine manufacture….well its illegal. 10 yr sentence and $100,000 fine. Clear cut.
All the above amounts to what I’ve been saying…
1. its not a registered legally owned gun
2. It’s an AR15
3. It’s either illegally converted OR the shooter attached a device to the gun affording pseudo- full automatic fire. This could be done for cheap.
Frankly, I don’t buy the mainstream media IDs of any firearm unless it came straight from the police with provenance.
agree. I’m skeptical of course…
The guy just got his Obamacare renewal notice… its enough to make anyone snap.
Maybe he planned his whole life on a quiet retirement, only to have Obama confiscate his retirement money via a corrupt insurance scam (that’s all obamacare is). He struggled and saved, while Obama’s free sh!t army demanded free sh!t.
We all know there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Apparently, he was a multi-millionaire, very wealthy. Try your hateful spin some other way.
According to your many spiteful and socialist leaning comments, you don’t live in the US and don’t know what is going on.
So just shut up
I am glad I don’t live in the US. Very dangerous country. Way too many people full of hate, like you. A nice place for a short visit, but as Vegas demonstrates, very dangerous.
This is what I call the Real CNN Effect, not the political theory crep about how it sews government policy. When CNN first broke onto the scene it was obvious that the CNN ‘saturation coverage’ with live broadcast from as near the scene as possible terrified the rest of the media across the developed world, it was no good running a story a day after CNN had laid it all bare. The response was to snatch any bit of ‘news’ that appeared then ask themselves, “Is it plausible?” If the answer was yes, polish it up, stuff in a bit of ‘expert opinion’, add a bit of spin to broaden things out and print it. Confirmation and fact checking takes too long so don’t, as well as the assumption that it’ll all be ‘chip paper soon enough’ (British expression derives from when freshly cooked Fish and Chips was wrapped in old newspaper for the customer to take away) and anyway, nobody is likely to care or remember if it isn’t quite right.
As I see it, this attitude and practice has expanded and become the norm. I listened to a recent segment on the BBC not too long ago where the literary person being interviewed mentioned that they had at one time been interested in journalism with ambitions of becoming an investigative journalist and gained a junior reporter position. Her ambitions quickly soured when she found her job was to trawl other news sites and grab any stories they hadn’t covered or additional information not in their coverage. Anything they found was to be chopped around, rewritten and sent down to the newsroom for the editors to consider.
Thus the fake news we have today.
Yep, investigative journalism is expensive and the MSM is having a hard financial time as it is. It’s much cheaper just to endlessly repeat stories from other media sources and act as the unquestioning mouthpiece for government news releases or leaks, unquestioned ONLY if they fit the left’s agenda of course.
Add to that the fact that 6 out of 10 Americans only read headlines and then pass them along as fact and you end up with an easily propagandized idiocracy.
6 in 10 of you will share this link without reading it, a new, depressing study says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/06/16/six-in-10-of-you-will-share-this-link-without-reading-it-according-to-a-new-and-depressing-study
The weapon used was full auto and sounded like a M240B. Either belt or drum fed. That’s not something someone can go and get at the store. How about checking if the shooter had a class 2 permit for full auto. If not, where did that weapon come from? That type of weapon is gov issue.
Unless he had a Vietnam era M16 with a drum attached. Definitely no mag feed.
yeah….”DEFINITELY no mag” and sure M240B (super exp. and rare gun)
jeeez. whatever.
no…no….no…
as I have stated (and now shown to be true)…it was a run of the mill semi AR15 coupled with a pseudo-auto fire device (slidefire stock) + a surefire 100 rnd mag.
I own all the above and listening to people mouth off about stuff they know nothing about is truly frustrating.
Im sorry for being a jerk commenting on it here and mean nothing personally against Howcon….but I’m just tired of hearing way off base speculation from uninformed people.
Sadam was not the problem with his weapons of mass destruction the US is!
It’s a dangerous world and we are not going to change that without lobotomizing the entire world population….but have patience, they’re working on it.
“heavily indebted gambling addict” is a good bet.”
..with a family history of psychopathy. Mix in some SSRI’s and you’ve got someone that’s VERY dangerous.
On the ISIS claim, his (married) girlfriend is a Filipino, usually imported in the past as military wives due to a once huge US military presence in the PI although with the chain migration allowed by the 1965 Immigration Act, who knows. There are 10 million Muslims in the PI.
How Two Brothers Took Over a Filipino City for ISIS
The country has a history of separatist movements. But it had never seen an extremist takeover like this.
12 Aug 2017
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/philippines-isis/536253/
I would assume that since this guy lived in Mesquite Nevada, the police have probably already searched his home for any kind of evidence that would link him to some terrorist group. Still we or I haven’t heard about anything found in his house that might provide a clue to his motive. We know that most serial killers start with pornography, and I only mention it since it is evil according to those who have become addicted to it, and can certainly lead to evil behavior.
Hmmm… I’ve read the 3 signs of a psychopath in childhood are:
1. Setting fires in ways that can actually harm people/animals.
2. Frequently killing living creatures (anything from frogs to dogs).
3 Bed wetting.
Hadn’t heard about porn.
Mike Mish Shedlock @MishGEA
What a senseless tragedy in Las Vegas. Best wishes to everyone impacted.
the smartest thing said.
Why did it take the cops 72 minutes to bust his door down?
That gunfire was loud. It must have been deafening on the 32nd floor. The other occupants must have reported it to the front desk and 911.
30 minutes max and that door should have been busted down with flash bangs fired into the room.
Really a strange story. No criminal record. A man of means. A preferred guest at the Mandalay given comped suites.
I wonder if the guy had a brain tumor?
Paranoid schizophrenia is unlikely to be a factor here. You don’t turn into a paranoid schizophrenic at age 64. That’s a young man’s disease.
SSRI’s to treat depression? Maybe.
Brain tumor? Maybe.
This wasn’t a homeless guy with a long rap sheet and nothing left to lose.
Something triggered Paddock into becoming a madman at an age when most men have entered the ‘mellow-out’ phase of life.
–> “Why did it take the cops 72 minutes to bust his door down?”
In a large, busy city… there are lots of noises all the time. Cars honking horns, trucks, buses. People screaming — because they won a jackpot, because they are trying to sell something, or because they are running out of a concert where people are being shot at. People screaming is a big one, as it makes it harder to tell where the shots are coming from, while also making it easier for a sniper to tell where the next shot should go.
Gunshots also echo off buildings, which makes triangulation tough to do — even for trained soldiers. If you read the book “American Sniper”, Chris Kyle (supposedly the best sniper in the US military) goes into long detail about efforts to track down Iraqi snipers that had minimal training. It took them hours, in a war zone, with highly trained soldiers looking.
I am a little fuzzy on how somebody carried 10 large rifles into the hotel, or alternatively 10 large “mystery cases” (or one big trunk?)…. plus lots of ammo. Supposedly casino security cameras are watching everything, and seems like carrying 10 rifles into a hotel should have at least merited some questions. Maybe there was a good reason (and its perfectly legal as it should be), but wouldn’t hotel security at least ask? What if he had planned on robbing the casino? Wouldn’t security ask a few questions?
Too many unknowns here, but the political hysteria over gun control virtually guarantees the investigation will be fumbled (and the politicization of the FBI under Comey doesn’t help either).
–> “That gunfire was loud. It must have been deafening on the 32nd floor. The other occupants must have reported it to the front desk and 911.”
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. The rooms are all sound insulated. And no one is going to call the cops or front desk for loud partiers in the room next door. By the time someone realizes the party sounds like automatic gunfire, they are ducking for cover, not calling room service.
–> “Really a strange story. No criminal record. A man of means. A preferred guest at the Mandalay given comped suites.”
Something made the guy snap. I joked earlier that he got his obamacare “we are discontinuing your policy, next year you must pick another policy” notice…
If he had a brain tumor, lets all be honest enough to admit that he would not get the same treatment that John McCain got under Congress-Care. No jumping to the front of the line, no automatic approval for a costly procedure, no Mayo clinic experts dropping everything to help.
Maybe he was on medication and dropped it recently — but you would think that info would be known to his family (maybe) and authorities pretty quickly.
I was amazed the FBI can’t find Hillary’s illegal email server for years, they couldn’t see the Loretta Lynch/Bill Clinton secret tarmac meeting for months, they have spent more than 15 months checking to see if the president of the United States (with secret service, and a giant entourage) talked to Russians… yet the FBI somehow “knows” this guy was a lone wolf after two hours. Huh? Its one thing to reassure the public, but making a statement so quickly when other cases take months? Not reassuring at all.
If I was in my room watching tube on the 33rd or 31st floors, above or below the suspect’s suite or in the adjacent suites on the 32nd floor (chances are somebody was after 10pm on a Sunday night) and he was popping off 100 rounds at a time the sound would make the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up. Vegas or no Vegas I’d light up both the front desk and the LVPD switchboards.
My guess is that Paddock was a long-time preferred gambler who security felt didn’t warrant intrusive security measures. Businesses don’t make a habit out of hassling their best customers, particularly in a competitive environment like Vegas where repeat business keeps the doors open.
The planning necessary for Paddock to pull this off must have been extensive. His bio seems to indicate that he wasn’t a stupid man. But how an educated guy w/ 64 years on the planet can go from no criminal history, no mental history, apparently a full working career that provided a big enough nest egg to retire comfortably, with several property ownerships to an evil homicidal maniac behind the biggest mass murder in the history of the country is baffling.
There’s much more to this story that’s hasn’t been told.
I don’t know if I (or anyone else) would be racing to make a phone call if there were bullets flying around me. Picking your head up or drawing attention to yourself is a great way to become a victim.
Agreed that there is way too much to this story that hasn’t been told
“The planning necessary for Paddock to pull this off must have been extensive.”
That says he didn’t “just snap” and, if anything, the extensive forethought may have prompted him “to snap” in the other direction and simply get hold of himself and come to his senses.
The impulsive, spontaneous outburst, possibly triggered by emotions is the guy who snaps. If Paddock did this, he may have experienced heavy losses on the gaming tables. Even at that, why shoot at concert goers?
Was he a high roller at Mandalay? He got comped for a nice suite but registered it in Marilou Danley’s name? He was a whale who got himself trimmed badly for some big losses. Or else he’s on SSRI’s.
You are getting hung up on semantics. Maybe “snapped” is the wrong word, but the guy wandered around for the first 63 years of his life just fine, and then suddenly “not snapped?” in year 64?
Whatever happened, I have stopped watching the coverage. Absolutely sickening bias from media outlets — CNN should be banned from broadcasting. CBS belatedly took their insane reporter off the air (was supposedly fired). Next, Congress wants to get involved and make the situation a lot worse.
The guy went “nuts”, whether it was sudden over a couple minutes or sudden over a week… and the people closest to him may never know why.
The notion that a bunch of corrupt, self serving politicians who can’t balance a check book are going to figure things out is too stupid for words. They can’t even handle their regular assignments.
“I am a little fuzzy on how somebody carried 10 large rifles into the hotel, or alternatively 10 large “mystery cases” (or one big trunk?)…. plus lots of ammo. Supposedly casino security cameras are watching everything, and seems like carrying 10 rifles into a hotel should have at least merited some questions”
nah…super easy . done it a bunch…meaning going to a professional organized shoot, bringing a lot of guns- including tripod mounted beltfeds, and staying at a hotel.
most are in soft cases. some can be broken down into smaller pieces.stack ’em , place on dolly with other bags, cover with blanket , good to go.
AR15’s with short 10″ barrels (registered as SBR w ATF) are easily broken down into 2 pieces and stuffed into any backpack.
the whole “how did he get that many guns into his hotel room?” is non-sense.
There are not effective deterents for those who are willing to die to perpetrate their crimes. Why are we pretending that this has something to do with guns? Timothy McVeigh didn’t need no stinking guns. Anybody with even the tinyest brain knows the statistical probabilities are infinitely small compared to about any other cause of death.
It is tragic to say the least and the horror should not be minimized but when considering the numbers of these weapons out there compared to the number of times semi auto rifles have been used for murder, it is statistically irrelevant.
It is the murderer that is the problem, not his or her methodology. Crime is a symptom of a sickness in society, and is typical, our powers that be will focus on the symptom rather than the cause, as the cause asks far too many difficult questions that refelct directly back on them and their policies. Every solution they can perceive of involves further limitations of personal freedoms, an action which directly FEEDS the illness and we can see it not just here but around the world.
So there are an estimated 300 million guns owned in private hands in America. Any attempt to outlaw those guns will have some pretty dramatic effects. The majority of current owners will NOT surrender them. People who are otherwise law abiding and PEACEFUL citizens will be instantly transformed into outlaws. Please, ANYONE, please explain how THIS will make America a more peaceful and law respecting society?
Even gun control advocates like fatso Michael Moore admit that Canada has more guns per capita than the US… and in his propaganda film he specifically mentions the city right across the border from Detroit. Canada has more guns, yet fewer shootings… and this from a nutcase gun control advocate.
Before all the facts are in, and virtually before ANY facts are in, the extremists in Washington ignore victims and IMMEDIATELY push for big government gun control. That might explain why the problem will never be solved (or addressed) in the USA. Moron politicians who have to use every tragedy for their own gain.
There was a time (supposedly) when the US government considered itself on the same team as its citizenry. They had the same healthcare as the rest of us, they paid the same taxes, they were accountable under the same laws… not any more. That is what is tearing the country apart
While we are all trying to figure out what / how this seemingly normal guy suddenly snapped, consider that TWO supposedly professional media weenies (one at CBS, one at CNN) both made the assertion that the victims were most likely “Republican / Trump supporters, because it was a country music concert”.
These are the supposedly “SANE” people?!?!?
And somewhere in the bowels of CBS and CNN, there is a producer who saw fit to allow the comments to air? Are those producers sane? Are they off their meds?
It is a radicalized environment that brings the nuts to the surface. As you point out, the media and government USE crisis, even if it must be created, to advance THEIR agenda, NOT OURS.
Something about all this just seems really off to me. I even wrote a blog post today about conspiracies and how weird stuff like the video footage of gunfire from the 4th floor makes me wonder what really happened.
Move along folks. Everyone was white, nothing to see here. Thank goodness it wasn’t a hip hop concert with a black audience. We would be having riots across the country with democratic politicians and MSM covering it for weeks.
Politicians and the media feed off of pitting man against woman, black against white, straight against gay and on and on. Further, the air isn’t safe to breathe, don’t drink the water, the vegetables are poison, don’t go in the Sun and on and on. They want to radicalize all of us and pit us against each other in order to increase their own personal power and wealth.
Then, it is guns that are the problem…
I was of the opinion that the NRA and their defense of the constitutional right to bear arms had no relevance in 21st century America, but its obvious this guy was able to bring a lot of firepower to bear with commercially available weapons. Think for a moment if there were two such men, controlling the field of fire and forcing anyone who tried to run away back toward the center of the fire zone. The deaths would have gone up exponentially. Should we ban commercial weaponry of this type, you can imagine the drug cartels would add weapons to their product line. The war on drugs would become the war on guns.
Such news items becomes ads for the weapons industry, “feeling disenfranchised? Buy a couple of our AR15s and make them fully automatic! Go Postal!”
For every guy who acts out there are thousands who buy these weapons and go out in the woods and shoot up the countryside as a means of catharsis. To make this a mental health issue, if you really feel this way, you should try to find another way. Legislation by voter initiative is the best way to bypass the fractured Congressional block who opposes these things.